Jessica: Hey, everyone! Welcome back to the Going Scared podcast. This is your host Jessica Honegger, founder of the social impact fashion brand Noonday Collection. Join me here every week for conversations on living lives of purpose by leaving comfort and going scared.
Alright, we’re back with our second week of our new series, Decide, Don’t Slide, and this week, we are talking about priorities. How many of you have problems prioritizing?
The truth is, I’m not real into productivity – that’s not my biggest goal in life. And sometimes, that leads me into sliding into a way that I actually don’t want to live. So, it’s really good for me to talk to people that are very list-oriented and I think that Geoff is one of those people.
Geoff Woods, he is the co-founder and president of Productive, the training company behind The ONE Thing. You guys have got to – this is one of the top-selling business books in the last 10 years, and Geoff is an expert at giving people back the one thing we desire most, which is time. And I love how he frames today’s conversation around how we are spending time versus how we are investing time.
Here is my conversation with Geoff.
Geoff Woods: Finding Your One Thing
Jessica: Okay. So, Geoff co-founded the company called The ONE Thing with Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, which by the way, I had coffee with Jay a few months ago. And I did not realize that this was a whole company.
Geoff: Oh yeah.
Jessica: Yes, I did not know. And so, I mean, they’ve got Keller Williams. It’s kind of ironic that something called The ONE Thing – they have a lot going on. And so, I was just curious to hear how did you help found a company which is founded off of a book? For those of y’all that may not know there’s a book – incredible, incredible book – called, "The One Thing: The Surprising Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results." It truly is about prioritizing, maniacally prioritizing, but then now it’s a company. So, I just wanted to hear about that. What’s the story behind the founding story of The ONE Thing Company?
Geoff: Gary and Jay co-authored “The ONE Thing,” in 2013, and pretty quickly, it took off and became one of the highest-rated business books of all time. And that presented a challenge because they go, "Okay, there’s something here." When you look at other companies like "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" and Franklin Covey, they’re going, "Okay, we’re looking at our sales and the reviews, and this is going to be like the seven habits."
The challenge was Gary Keller’s one thing is being chairman of Keller Williams. That’s the largest real estate company in the world. Jay Papasan’s one thing is being Gary’s writing partner, writing books with Gary. And they said, okay, we’re missing a person. We need somebody whose one thing is the one thing. At the time, I was in medical device sales, which was a phenomenal job. I woke up every day, I wore scrubs, ran through hospitals selling a device that actually saved lives. Yet I was at this place in my life, Jessica, where you ever been really happy, but lacking fulfillment?
Jessica: Weary, to be honest with you.
Geoff: That’s good now but…
Jessica: But once you know my story, you’ll see why, but I’ve been unhappy and still fulfilled if that makes sense. But yeah, tell us more.
Geoff: Well, I think this is something that most professionals deal with. Like, even though life’s good, they’re lacking fulfillment. I remember feeling like I was meant for more, like I wasn’t reaching my potential. Yet I didn’t know what my potential was. I didn’t know what I should be doing differently. So I just did what I was doing. And two things happened that really set me on my journey.
A colleague of mine had a stroke when he was 35. My wife and I at the time had just bought a house in Orange County and just had our first child. And Amy decided to become a stay-at-home mom. And then the next week, my company changed my commission structure and overnight I lost 40% of my income. So, realizing how mortal we are and that I actually wasn’t in control of my income the way I thought I was made me realize that I needed to make a change. And I heard this Jim Rohn quote, that you’re the average of the five people spend the most time with. I looked at my five and realized I had five amazing friends, but I didn’t have five amazing mentors. And it sent me on a journey.
“Realizing that I actually wasn’t in control of my income the way I thought I was made me realize that I needed to make a change.” Geoff Woods
You fast forward, it was our national sales meeting. And Jay was the keynote speaker talking about “The ONE Thing,” and how Gary Keller lived these principles to build Keller Williams to the largest real estate company in the world. And when he came off stage, I cornered him and it began a relationship and turns out I was the exact person they were looking for.
Jessica: Wow. I love that. I love that. And the story here too is just we talk… there was a podcast I had with a guy named Andy Crouch and he writes about power and how leadership and true power is to be able to create human flourishing for other people and the ability to create more flourishing power for more people. And I just love how some authors, they’re all about creating their own platform.
And I think that’s what’s so profound about how Gary and Jay, and you now, actually live out these values because in the telling of this story, it’s obvious that Gary was like still focused on his one thing. And Jay’s still focused on his one thing. And they were willing to sort of, you know, share this platform, this idea that they had in order to create more power for others.
Geoff: It’s surprising because… you’re right, most authors, they get on the speaking train and they go all over promoting the book. And then they’re the ones on the videos. And I remember my first day on the job, the first words Gary ever said to me were, "Welcome to Austin," because I had just moved from Southern California. "Good luck. You’re going to need it." And I said, "Hi. Thanks. Why?" And he said, "Your biggest challenge is going to be that you’re going to want to make me your product. And I’m just going to be really clear, you’re never going to get me on a podcast, you’re never going to get me on stage, you’re never going to get me on a video for a course. Because the best part about your job is it’s your job. And if you try to give me pieces of your job, you will no longer have a job." Basically, if you need me, then I don’t need you, so go succeed without me.
Jessica: I mean, I love it. And it’s so much more powerful that way.
Geoff: Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.
Jessica: Yeah. Nice to meet you. Thank you for that.
Taking Back Your Time
Jessica: It’s funny because when I saw “The ONE Thing” I did… and I’m in Austin, so, you know, I’m familiar with the authors behind the book. And so, then I was like, "Oh, I guess I’m getting on the phone with Jay today." And then I’m like, "Oh, it’s Geoff. I’m getting on with Geoff." And so, then I had to kind of research Geoff and, oh, he’s the founder of this ONE Thing company. And I just wish more people would multiply their power like that because, you know, I work with a lot of influencers and so many influencers don’t get that if they could multiply their brand, and I mean, I run a direct sales company.
So, and that’s what Keller Williams is kind of for the real estate brand. And so, from the beginning, Noonday Collection always was about multiplying and creating not just an opportunity for me, but for thousands of women around America to become Noonday ambassadors and create marketplaces for the artists and goods and multiply the power of artisans so that they could, you know, emerge out of poverty and live flourishing lives. And so, I think it is so powerful.
So, let’s just share it, share what the one thing is, because it really is that extraordinary results are directly determined by how narrow you can make your focus. So, let’s talk about that.
Geoff: The ONE Thing is the surprisingly simple truth behind extraordinary results. We’re in the business of time, it is our most valuable resource. It’s more valuable than money. The problem is most people go through their day spending their time because they were never taught how to invest it. Have you ever invested money, Jessica?
“We’re in the business of time, it is our most valuable resource. The problem is most people go through their day spending their time because they were never taught how to invest it.” Geoff Woods
Geoff: When you made an investment of money, what did you expect in return?
Jessica: More money than I invested.
Geoff: You expect a return. This is the problem. We don’t hold our time to the same standard we hold our dollars to. The average person listening to this show right now, fires up their computer, and what’s the first thing they check, Jessica?
Jessica: Their email.
Geoff: Yup. Until they have to go to their first…
Geoff: Get out of the meeting, have five minutes, so they check…
Jessica: Their social media.
Geoff: Yup. And then somebody messaged them or calls them and asks, "Hey, you got a minute."
Geoff: And that literally repeats all day long. You ever had one of those days where you were really busy, but you actually questioned what you got done?
Geoff: Yeah. And I’ll preface by saying there’s zero judgment on this side. I used to live this way. This was my life prior to co-founding this company. But that’s a result of spending your time. Reacting to whatever’s at the top of your inbox, saying yes to showing up to the meeting, whether it’s actually your most important priority or not, saying, “yes” if people ask you if you’ve got a minute because deep down you don’t want to be perceived to not be a team player. You say yes to all the things that just don’t matter as much and you say no to the things that matter most.
And where this really gets challenging is if you have a family, because a lot of people work long and hard throughout the day being busy, but they don’t get the most important things done. And then without realizing it, they say, “no” to the people that matter most to them every day because they didn’t know what to say yes to during the day.
When they’re sitting on the couch with their kids, they’re checking email. When they should be in bed having a conversation with their significant other, they’re up late doing the things that they should have done during the day. And all we do is we simply turn it on its head.
We believe that if doing the most important thing is most important thing, then let’s just start by doing that first and everything else can flow around it. It’s just like imagine a big stream and you suddenly place this boulder in the middle of the stream. When the water hits the boulder, what’s it going to do, Jessica?
Jessica: It is going to go around it.
Geoff: Same thing here. Get clarity on what your big rocks are. Get clarity on what your true priorities are, place them in your calendar and make everything else flow around it.
It is the surprisingly simple truth behind extraordinary results.
Naming Our New Normal
Jessica: I want to talk about how COVID eliminated one set of problems. Like, you know, in some ways it did eliminate some of this kind of nonsense chitter-chatter, idle, whatever, wasting time. On another hand, it created a whole new set of problems. So, I just want your perspective on that. I’m curious.
Geoff: You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. I am so grateful that Gary and Jay are some of my mentors because when COVID hit, I got a call from Jay and he said, “Here’s the deal. Your business plan for the year is dead. We are divorcing you from all financial commitments you’ve made to the board for the year. You have one thing right now that matters. And that is that you get on the phone with our customers and figure out what their challenge is. I don’t care if it’s related to our business or not, but you need to get on the phone with our customers and build a protective moat around your customer base. If we have to give things away for free, do it. But go build a moat around our customer base so when this thing passes, they’re still customers.”
Jessica: And your customer base, your customers are people who are participating in your coaching and in your seminars?
Geoff: We have individuals that are part of our continuity program called “Living Your ONE Thing.” So it’s a membership community. I have companies that we work with from small businesses of 10 to 20 people to we advise some of the Fortune 500 on how to protect or create productive cultures. I just need to get on the phone with our customers to figure out what are they thinking? What are their struggles? How might we be able to serve them, whether it’s free or paid? And in the process of doing so, I figured out where the puck was going. I figured out where the market was going and how we might be able to fill that market. I learned a lesson very quickly, which is what stops us from reinventing ourselves is an attachment to the way things used to be.
“What stops us from reinventing ourselves is an attachment to the way things used to be.” Geoff Woods
You saw it with some restaurants, a lot of restaurants were attached to the way things used to be. Well, you have to come in and sit down in order for us to serve you. And you saw some restaurants that let go of that and figured out how do we create a world-class takeout experience? And some of them are thriving. So, for us, COVID was it brought us back to the core of what matters most. How do we serve people at the highest level? Let’s figure out what their pain points are and then let’s go and fill the gap. And we were really fortunate, as a result, we’ve had the best year we’ve ever had in the history of the company.
Jessica: I’m curious, you know, I look at COVID in chapters, right? We’re definitely in a 12-chapter book, I feel like maybe we’re in chapter 9 right now, let’s say. And an article came out in the Times recently by Adam Grant and it was titled, "There’s a Name for the Blah You’re Feeling and It’s Called Languishing." And he goes on to describe this feeling. It’s not depression, it’s more of this mental state that doles our motivation and our focus.
And I have to say I resonated because during my first few chapters of COVID, I experienced an entrepreneurial revival, like what you were talking about. Like we’re 10 years in as a business and I’m an entrepreneur and I was getting itchy. You know, this time last year, pre-COVID, I was already just like something’s… you know, I need innovation back. I need freedom to break some rules.
So, the first few months, I was on fire and I was alive in ways that I hadn’t been honestly since founding the company.
And now, even though we’re celebrating the arrival of that vaccine, 40% of our products are handmade in India where 30% of all Indians have COVID right now. So, most of our artists and partners are really in a dire position and there’s no extra room at the hospitals. And everyone at our Austin office is still working from home. So, I’m not getting the human interaction that I’m used to that would kind of give me that energy I needed when my focus did begin to wane and when my motivation did wane. And then, you know, we’re working in the retail space, so even though we actually met our sales goals, we definitely are in a harder-hit industry.
So, we were just looking at… you know, we’re seeing success as keeping our revenue, right? That’s what our bar is right now. But my ability to stay motivated and to just focus is requiring so much more effort than it did in those first few months of just innovation and crisis and problem-solving. And I was with some CEOs this week of, I mean, this one CEO just closed $120 million quarter.
So, I mean, this woman is running an insane company. And she’s the one who told me about the article. And I mean, so I’m just like, "Okay, I’m not alone." So, can you explain that, like the chapter that we’re in right now, and, you know, we’re talking about people that are running companies and that are still feeling this languishing
Geoff: Chapter one of COVID, you’re right. You know, leaders spurred into action. They recast division. They went into crisis management. And some people really thrive there. The thing that happened – I almost call it the hangover is now that people have been forced to be decentralized – it really shined a spotlight on weaknesses that they were easy to overlook before. And I can only speak to what we’re experts in, which is clarity of priorities and how you invest your time. It made companies and leaders really question what are our priorities? And sure, maybe we know what that is at an enterprise level at this point in time, but how do I make sure that every single person on my team knows what their priorities are based on the priorities of the business.
If I can’t walk over and physically tap them on the shoulder, how do I know what they’re doing? How do I hold people accountable? It’s been very uncomfortable for people. And it’s why we’ve been just so fortunate and able to serve people is it’s really there are some simple ways that you can get people clear on what matters most and make sure that people are aligned, that the dominoes are lining up.
That what they’re doing today is actually going to make knocking the thing they need to knock down nest next easier or unnecessary. And you’re touching on a lot of things from how do we keep employee morale high? How do we stay connected when we’re distanced? These are all challenges that the companies are fighting through. The successful ones are the ones that are getting clarity on what those little dominoes are that they can knock down that actually make everything else easier or unnecessary.
Learning from Languishing
Jessica: Can you give us a couple of examples of what to do, when I’m thinking of our listener right now, who may not be leading a company, but might be languishing?
Geoff: The biggest challenge I see with the individual, the individual professional, is the lines between professional and personal don’t exist. It’s one thing when you have to get in a car and drive to an office and get back in your car and drive home, you have environments that say it’s personal time versus professional time.
Those lines have been blurred when all you have to do is walk through a door in your home. And it’s even more challenging when you have little monkeys that run around during that time.
I mean, I was literally on Zoom this morning with a leader in China and my eight-year-old walks in and wanted to give me a hug. It’s like that’s normally not the appropriate time, but at the same time, she’s my one thing. He’s not. So I hugged her. You know, I said good morning to her. And the leader had to wait. So, I think people have really struggled with how to set boundaries around what is personal time, what is professional time, and when those lines get crossed, how do I act in those moments?
“People have really struggled with how to set boundaries around what is personal time, what is professional time, and when those lines get crossed, how do I act in those moments?” Geoff Woods
Jessica: What do you think the future is? We’re talking about going back in person and we just did an employee survey. And, of course, there was one person that said, “Let’s be back in person all the time.” That must’ve been an extrovert; I think he’s living alone. And everyone else is expecting hybrid, you know? And yeah. So, talk to us about that.
Geoff: I figured out pretty quickly just talking to our corporate customers – we’re talking small businesses to the Fortune 500 – I kept hearing the same thing, which is they really saw the future of work not being all or nothing one way or the other. They saw it being a hybrid. And if you had to look at it on a spectrum, they saw it being more virtually-based, physically enhanced.
Virtually based, we can hire talent from anywhere. We don’t have to just go by geography now. Physically enhanced, there are hubs, there are offices or times that you may come to gather because there are certain things that we have yet to figure out how to replace the in-person element.
I don’t have that solution today, but we believe the future of work is virtually-based, physically enhanced. And you’re talking to a guy who runs an in-person business.
I looked at my partners and said, “You know, as a company that trains companies to be productive, if that’s the future of work, shouldn’t we be one of those companies so we have authority?” And they looked at me and said, "Well, that’s a good argument." And so, we decided to take the company virtual and I then looked at them and said, "Well, then do I even need to live in Austin anymore?" And they said, "I guess not." And I bought a house in Denver two weeks later and that’s where I am now. So, it’s changed the way that we work. And there are times that in-person’s required, and we’ll make that happen. But that’s what I think the future looks like.
Jessica: I listened to the podcast you did on your podcast, The ONE Thing podcast – by the way, fabulous podcast.
Geoff: Thank you.
Jessica: And you shared about your move to Colorado. And there’s a quote that stood out to me. You said, “The purpose of your goals is not the result, it’s to inform how you have to behave right now to know if you’re in alignment to your goals or out of alignment.”
And this podcast series is called Decide, Don’t Slide. And what we mean by that is we know that we are shifting. We know that we’re getting to the end of the book of COVID in the United States. I mean, we don’t know that because there are variants and there’s still a million things that can go wildly wrong…
Geoff: Fingers crossed.
Taking Action and Making it Happen
Jessica: But you know, I think – listen, if you go to Sixth Street or South Congress, COVID does not exist anymore in Austin. So, but we are saying, “Okay, a lot of people did gain focus because of COVID, right? It did make certain things a priority.” And we have people like you who are like, "I’ve always wanted to live in Colorado. Why am I not doing that?" People have made some life-changing decisions because business as usual was completely interrupted, disrupted, and it realigned people’s priorities.
But now we’re in this moment where I think we need to decide now how we want to live, or we will slide. I believe we will slide right back into the busy…the deprioritization of what we say our priorities are. Just all of that. And so, Decide, Don’t Slide. And I just love how you said that “the purpose of our goals isn’t the results.”
So, talk to us a little bit more about that, and then how that played out for you in this decision to move.
Geoff: Gary Keller was teaching a class for some of the top agents and he asked them, "What’s the purpose of the goal?" And a lot of people chimed in and shared ideas. And in summary, they said to achieve a result. And he said, "I thought the same thing, but the thing that I’ve learned along my journey is it’s not true." So, the purpose of a goal is to be appropriate in the moment. It’s not about the result. It’s not about the arrival. It’s about the journey. It’s about who’s the person you need to become to earn the right to achieve those goals. What are the actions, those dominoes that you can knock down today that ensure that you are in alignment with your goals and not distracting from them? And you know, for my example, every year we facilitate a couples’ goal-setting retreat. It’s very fun. By the way, we take proven business principles and apply them to personal relationships.
“The purpose of a goal is to be appropriate in the moment. It’s not about the result. It’s not about the arrival. It’s about the journey.” Geoff Woods
And when my wife and I did our retreat a few years ago, we asked the question, “What does an extraordinary life look like for us someday from now?” And for us someday is 20 years. Other people might say 10 years. You decide what someday is. But for us, it’s 20. And we said, "You know what? As much as we love Austin, we’re just not Texans." We both grew up in Southern California and oak trees don’t call our soul, pine trees do. Mountains, resonate with us and we would love to live in a winter climate. And we went, "Okay, well, as long as I run this company, I have to be in Austin" – pre-COVID. My wife asked me, "Well, honey, what’s one thing we can do this year to feel like we’re on track?"
And one, I just fell in love with her all over again. And we agreed that if we just took one purposeful vacation a year to a different mountain location over the course of 10, 20 years, we would really know where we wanted to call home. And we asked the question, "What are the 20% priorities a city would have to have for us to even consider calling it home?" And we realized there was five things: progressive state, international airport, access to mountains, lots of sunshine, no biting bugs.
Well, you drop that net on the United States, you get Denver. It’s the only one, literally. It’s the only one. And so we said, "Great, let’s go to Denver this year." Then COVID hit. And we started to get a little stir crazy after a while. And we said, "You know what, let’s just still do it." We felt like we could take the precautions and be safe. Well, the thing is two weeks prior to us getting on the plane was when I approached Gary and Jay saying the future of work is virtually-based, physically enhanced.
As a company that trains companies to be productive, shouldn’t we be one of those companies? And they said, “Yes.” So, instead of Denver turning into a let’s scout it out trip, it turned into a house-hunting trip.
And I literally bought a house on that trip. That would have never happened had my wife and I not, first and foremost, asked the question, “What matters to us someday from now,” and then asked, “How might we move the needle this year?” What dominoes can we knock down this year just to feel like we’re on track? Because then when the opportunity was actually created, we were able to move and move with confidence.
Jessica: Yeah. It’s a really interesting way to redefine the purpose of a goal. And I mean, we work with salespeople. We have a couple of thousands of women creating marketplaces around the United States, and we get so many different types of people. People that don’t relate at all to this idea of goal-setting, people who want to just go with the flow, go where the energy is. And I think that even that makes goals feel a little more inspiring.
I’m one of those people that is not a maniacal goal-setter – my goal in life is not to be the most productive. It is to be the most purposeful. So, of course, I live purposely with priorities and alignment with my values, but I just really like how that makes it feel like we all sort of need to define what are our goals post-COVID as we’re approaching the end of the book and how does that impact our “now”?
Geoff: Yeah. One of the biggest challenges I’ve seen is people don’t have a hard time getting clarity on goals, but what they struggle with is converting goals into actions that they can take today. Because like, especially a salesperson, you might have a sense of the amount of revenue that you want to close over the course of a year. But based on that, what belongs on your calendar today? People don’t know naturally how to bridge that gap.
“People don’t have a hard time getting clarity on goals, but what they struggle with is converting goals into actions that they can take today.” Geoff Woods
But the beauty is if you set a goal, you could actually take the time to reverse engineer the steps in that sales process to figure out how many people do I have to talk to on a daily basis or over the course of a year to hit those numbers? You could figure it out. And then you actually open up your calendar and ask the question, “How much time is it going to take me to have that many conversations knowing that just because you call doesn’t mean they pick up?” And then making sure that time is blocked for those activities.
That’s when things get messy for people because then they see all the other things that are on their calendar – all the meetings, all those little 80% to-do items that they need to do. And they tell themselves, "I just don’t have enough time."
You do. You’re just choosing to spend it instead of investing it.
Jessica: Every day that’s what I’m trying to motivate my ambassador community in the midst of, you know, kids and this new normal. And they’re all independent contractors and many of them are at home alone. And it’s just on them to decide, “Am I going to actually work my business today?”
Geoff: Yeah. And the challenge is… we have this saying, "Think big, go small, trust the dominos will fall."
Jessica: I like that.
Geoff: People are good at thinking big, they’re good at setting the goals, they suck at going small because they tell themselves, "Oh gosh, this is resonating. I’m spending my time."
"You’re right. I need to cancel everything. And I need to have four hours a day blocked where I am going to not check email. I’m not going to respond to text messages. I’m not going to go on social media. For four straight hours every day for the rest of my career, I’m going to focus on prospecting and lead generation. And I’m going to build an amazing business."
Jessica: Which by the way, if people did that, that’s guaranteed success.
Geoff: Absolutely. And it’s not the one thing that they can do. It’s the one thing they feel like they should do.
Jessica: Okay. So talk about that.
Geoff: Well, this is the focusing question of the book. It’s what’s the one thing I can do such that by doing it, everything else would be easier or unnecessary. Look, if you four-hours-a-day lead gen-ed and did nothing else, you’d build an extraordinary business. You’d have so much revenue. And with revenue, you can cure a lot of problems. You can hire the people that you need to hire. Like literally, that’s how I’ve built this business. My number one gift is being able to make it rain. And as a result, I have built a pretty phenomenal team that can do everything else.
And that’s not where you start. A lead domino, like a 2-inch domino that is so small, that effortlessly with the flick of a finger it would fall, might be, "Before I check my email, I’m going to ask what’s my one thing." Because if you ask what’s your one thing, you’re going to be far more likely to be clear on what your number one priority is for the day. And if you know what that number one priority is, you will suddenly stop artificially inflating the importance of your inbox because your inbox is just a bunch of random to-dos that everybody else is assigning to you.
That’s you reacting to else’s priorities, not your own.
One, a lead domino might be, "I’m going to make one phone call before I check my email." A lead domino might be, before I check my email, I’m just going to make sure that I have time blocked on my calendar for me to do whatever that one thing is. Like, these are tiny little things that on its own isolated does not lead to building an extraordinary business or having an extraordinary life.
But if every single day, day after day after day, you asked, “What’s my one thing,” before “What’s everybody else want me to do,” – whoa, baby, watch the domino effect that happens.
Jessica: I often do think of life as being like a river. And I like to imagine myself on this river, and what season am I in? Am I in that season where I’m rowing really fast through rapids? Am I on just a crystal-clear part of the river where I’m basking in the sun? Or am I having to navigate around boulders?
I love how he talks about getting clear on what your big rocks are and then let everything else flow around that. It’s not easy. It requires effort, but it really is something that’s super simple.
I’m so curious: What are the things that you do that drive your priorities? What practices do you have that help you live a life that’s in alignment with your values?
Head on over to Instagram and drop me a note. I would love to hear from you!
Next week, guys, we are going to be back for a conversation with the co-founder of Netflix Mark Randolph. I’m super excited for that conversation.
Before we go, I would love for you to review and rate the podcast. I look at the feedback. It helps us guide our future conversations. So, head over and do that.
Our wonderful music for today’s show is by my good friend Ellie Holcomb. Going Scared is produced by Eddie Kaufholz. And I’m Jessica Honegger. Until next time, let’s take each other by the hand and keep going scared.