Alison Cook, Enneagram as a Self-Awareness Tool

Jessica Honegger [00:00:03] Hey, there, welcome to Going Scared. I'm Jessica Honegger, founder of the world changing brand Noonday Collection, and I'm so glad to have you here for today's conversation. Our Going Scared community gathers here every week for direct and honest conversations that help you live a life of courage by leaving comfort and going scared. OK, I'm a little sad today because this is it. It's our last conversation in 2021, and it's our last conversation and our Know Thyself series. So I wanted to end with, of course, the enneagram. The enneagram. There are one million people talking about the enneagram online these days. I've done a couple of previous episodes about enneagram as well. In fact, one of them has been the most downloaded episode of all time for Going Scared. It's with Suzanne Stabile, and I've also done one with Ian Krohn. So those are great primer episodes on the enneagram. If you are still like ennea-what? and we start talking numbers and I'm going to let you go back and listen to those episodes, you can just search Going Scared, Suzanne Stabile and it'll come out wherever you listen to podcasts. So I wanted to save the most familiar for last because today we're actually wrapping it all up. And I brought Alison Cook back on the show because she really integrates everything that we've been able to talk about over the last few weeks with the enneagram. So we are going to talk about internal family systems, Myers-Briggs, attachment, and enneagram all together in one. She led an earlier conversation of ours in this series on internal family systems, where we talk about becoming aware of the various parts of ourselves, and then we can use that awareness as a way to create boundaries for our souls. In this episode, I share what it's like being an enneagram seven wing six, and Allison talks about being a three wing two. And like I said, if you don't know what we're talking about, go on back and listen to those previous episodes. Alison is a psychologist, speaker and the coauthor of Boundaries for Your Soul How to Turn Your Overwhelming Thoughts and Feelings Into Your Greatest Allies. And I have loved getting to know her on Instagram, where she answers questions from her followers on a regular basis on all things mental and social health. Alison, thank you so much for coming back on the show.

Alison Cook [00:02:44] Oh, I love it, I love this conversation that you are having so important.

Jessica Honegger [00:02:49] This is really fun because you're finishing out our entire series on Know Thyself.

Alison Cook [00:02:54] OK, so this is the last one.

Jessica Honegger [00:02:56] This is the bookend, and we could not complete the know thyself series without talking about the enneagram.

Alison Cook [00:03:04] Oh, you have to talk about. You have to. I mean, it's that's

Jessica Honegger [00:03:07] probably why people are even more aware of themselves than they used to be.

Alison Cook [00:03:12] It's really true. I'm actually impressed you waited till the last episode for it.

Jessica Honegger [00:03:16] I am. Hey, it's the hook.

Alison Cook [00:03:18] That's right. That's right. Yes.

Jessica Honegger [00:03:21] But the reason I wanted to have Alison on in particular is because if you go back and listen to the episode we did and I'm going to put all of this in the show notes is we talked about internal family systems, which is all about how we have these different parts of us that we carry in us and with us. And often these parts need to be re-parented. And what I love is that you also are extremely familiar and love the enneagram. And so Alison and I, when we were talking about what we could have her on the show for, she actually mentioned Let's do an episode integrating the Graham and IFS. And I thought, Yeah, I would love to understand how that works. And the reason I'm excited about this episode and, you know, excited for all of our listeners is I do feel like with the popularity of the Instagram, oftentimes people do say things like, I am a nine, I am a six, and we often think that that is who we are, that that is all of us. But you like to say that these are just different parts of us, so why don't you kick us off? Well, before we go into that, first of all, what do you identify as on the enneagram, Alison?

Alison Cook [00:04:42] Well, which is part of why I learned to integrate it with IFS and you know, a lot of enneagram teachers and leaders and experts that I talk with, talk with, agree with this way that that we are all actually in some ways we can connect to all of the different numbers. Yes. So this isn't a new idea, but so I for the longest time thought I was a two. I learned about the enneagram. I did this spiritual leadership. It was it was this beautiful retreat over the course of like two years where he went to this quarterly listening retreats. This was like ten years ago, and they introduced us to the enneagram, and everyone said I was a three-episode series like, I'm not a three, I'm not a three or a two. I do other things I do to try to help people, right? Sure enough, I was a three. So of course, I didn't want to be the three. I wanted to be the two. But so that was kind of my journey of realizing, oh, that that motivator underneath all of this really aligns more with that three number.

Jessica Honegger [00:05:37] What part of you did not want to be the three?

Alison Cook [00:05:41] I wanted to see myself as a therapist. I, you know, I have a real strong helping part of me that I'm proud of. And so I wanted to see my motivator for some of the achievement in my life. Staying in graduate school for getting degrees, for doing all these things as, no, I really want to do it to help people versus it felt to me more to think about why I was doing it for my own achievement that felt selfish to me. And I think one of the things I read is a lot of women do almost, you know, often test out as two's just by default because we're sort of conditioned to feel like we should be helpful. And so we have to sometimes look a little deeper. And sure enough, as I looked a little deeper, I realized when you look at the two that the desire is for love, whereas the three, the desire is more toward wanting success or to feel worthy. And that is far more what was motivating me. It's not that I didn't want to help people I have a very strong two wing, [00:06:46]but that's where the idea of it as a parts became really important to me because there's a lot of three in me and there's a lot of two in me. Sometimes I say I'm a two and a half, you know, it's there's a lot of complexity to how we show up in the world. And oftentimes I look like a nine. And then I came to realize that a nine is who I am when I'm under stress is what I you know how I show up in the world when I'm under stress. And so that that was sort of my journey with it was making peace with that core number, but understanding that it's not all of who I am. [33.9s]

Jessica Honegger [00:07:20] Absolutely. I can show up as a three because I do value success, but my motivator is, I think success will alleviate pain. I identify as a seven with a six swing, and I am scared to death of pain.

Alison Cook [00:07:39] Yeah. And painful emotions, I'm sure.

Jessica Honegger [00:07:43] And when I think about Noonday, you know, some people might think, Oh, she too, or she in a because it's all about social justice and creating opportunity for people in vulnerable communities. And I travel the world in order to go into really dark and hard places. Yes. And once I discovered the enneagram, I looked at this whole calling that God has me in and I realized I just want to alleviate suffering from people. I want to alleviate it. Yeah, but of course, I want to alleviate it because of my own pain. Right?

Alison Cook [00:08:16] Sure. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's sort of a beautiful way of harnessing the energy of that part of you, right, is toward helping other people alleviate that suffering. But it makes so much sense that it's really that core motivation that is to avoid suffering for me, it's to avoid feeling like a fool feeling like a failure. I don't want anyone else to feel that way, either. You know, so a lot of my work, you know, sometimes I veer toward coaching in my work because I want people to succeed and in the best way, you know, in the best way of feeling capable and competent and like they can show up as the best version of themselves in the world.

Jessica Honegger [00:08:51] Let's talk about people that have a more challenging time figuring out what their quote on quote number is. Because I still feel like I meet people who they listen to the podcast, maybe they've read in enneagram book and they're still just like, I don't know what, what do you think that is? And how could you help someone that's listening right now? Kind of figure that out using this integration of IFS and enneagram?

Alison Cook [00:09:17] Well, I think it's really normal. I really do. I think very few of us kind of, you know, we're complicated people. We have different parts of us. And so that's how I would the IFS model that we talked about on our last episode. It really just talks about this idea of there's so many different parts of us. And so that's where it's confusing because I, for example, I also have a strong five part where I can just go up into my mind, intellectualize. And so for a long time, I thought I was a five, right? And so and I see this all the time with people. [00:09:47]And so that's what's the beauty of the enneagram journey is the enneagram is a deep, rich tool. And so it takes you into really going deeper and deeper into your core motivations. And the way that I like to describe it is what's the part of you that is closest to home? What? What is the part of you? You know, when you look through the list of numbers, you know, are you most? Are you most interested in? It's not that you'd never do the other things, but are you most? What's the quickest go to for you when you're either under stress or when you're at your best, either one of those? [37.4s] And so, you know, for me, it was staying in school. You know, I was good at school. I liked school, give me school all day long. I can complete a task. I can get it done. I can do it well. Gold star end of the day, you know? And so that was where, you know, a lot of people are like, you're a three, you know, even though I didn't like that, but it really was my go-to easiest place inside. [00:10:46]But what really helped free me and I think this is helpful for a lot of people is to realize that's just one part of me. I do have access to these other parts of me. And so does everybody else. You might have that core number that is really what your deepest root at the deepest root of who you are. What's your biggest fear is and it really forces you to go deep inside? What's your biggest fear? You know that that's the kind of the question. You know what? What do you fear would happen if you know this worst case scenario you really get at what that core motivator is inside. [39.0s] I  fear I'll lose love. I fear pain. I fear that I won't be able to avoid this conflict. I fear anger. I fear being seen. I fear shame. I fear being seen as flawed. Somehow, each of those correlates with a number and that becomes your core number. And then you, you know, you still though then are going to have access to those other numbers on the wheel.

Jessica Honegger [00:11:52] So in your own life, when let's say your nine comes up and you're aware that nine is OK, this is I'm in and health right now. I'm going to my stress, my place in stress. How do you incorporate that with IFS? Do you actually have a name for your nine part or yeah, what does that look like?

Alison Cook [00:12:15] So I had always talked about a part when I thought it was a two. I always talked about a very strong part of me that I called my concrete wall of avoidance. And I mean, it is a wall.

Jessica Honegger [00:12:26] it's a good thing to ask yourself listeners, what is your concrete wall of avoidance? Because we all have that.

Alison Cook [00:12:35] Oh, it's just that. It's just so I just and it takes me over, you know, It’s just it's a brick wall. I can't get out of it. And I will just do anything to avoid, you know what I don't want to face. And that was a part of me that I became very familiar with IFS work, I would have to work with it. 

Jessica Honegger [00:12:59] Tell us about that process. If you don't mind being vulnerable, tell us what that looked like.

Alison Cook [00:13:02] Sure. I mean, just in my own internal work, I would just literally bump into it any time, any question around a painful memory or something would, you know, would be asked of me or a fear I just would bump into what felt like this wall, this this brick wall of avoidance. And I didn't know it was avoidance per se. You know, over time, it began to reveal itself as this part of me that would let go into a cave and eat candy bars and watch TV. You know that that's that. Which is what I did as a kid, literally. You know, it was like I would just if there was, and I didn't know I was doing that as a result of stress. I was just watching sitcoms. This was before we could really binge, you know, all you know, sneaking soda is that I wasn't supposed to have as a way to self-soothe. And as a way to avoid any of the pain that I was feeling at school or whatever at home. But it's on my IFS work. It just would show up in this, this feeling of kind of being in this cave. It kind of became a cave because then I was inside of it, the stone wall of it. But it was just me kind of numbing myself out. And that's where I wanted to stay. I did not want to leave that safe cave. That's where I felt safe. Nobody could hurt me in there, you know?

Jessica Honegger [00:14:19] And I guess with enneagram, we all have these caves, right? We all have self-numbing tools. You know, I might do the exact same thing, but I'm might be trying to avoid something else like. For me, I don't know if it's a failure that I fear as much as being alone.

Alison Cook [00:14:40] Mm hmm.

Jessica Honegger [00:14:41] Right. And so, if I am perceiving a situation where I'm going to be alone in my failure, then that really causes me to avoid or if I perceive a situation that's going to cause grief. We hate grief sevens we're just like, get me as far away from grief as possible. And yeah, yeah.

Alison Cook [00:15:05] Well, and as I said,

Jessica Honegger [00:15:06] the last two years, the last two years, like,

Alison Cook [00:15:08] you can't escape so much of it. You've had to cope. So where do you go? What number do you go to when you're under that kind of stress, when you're trying to avoid grief?

Jessica Honegger [00:15:20] One, I mean, so it shows up is critical and I can notice, and it even happened on Saturday. I noticed myself. Let's see. I was anticipating well, I didn't notice. All right. All I noticed was that I was walked into my house and my husband, who's amazing, who carries the load of our home. I mean, we're talking dishes, laundry, breakfast. It's a little ridiculous. I will have shame if I go on and on about everything my husband does on top of running his business. And I had left the house on Saturday with him sitting on the couch watching football, and I came home a few hours later and he was sitting on the couch watching football. Now. That is his. It's Saturday, it's not I mean, he had done the lawn that morning. I mean, there wasn't. And I felt myself being very critical and I we have different values around. He's a one on the enneagram. So for him to even be able to stop and rest is actually a really big deal. But I think my expectations for fun that weekend, we had had some changes in plans. We were going to go on the boat that afternoon. It wasn't working out and suddenly, the kids are all separate. We're not all going to have family fun together. I'm staring at a Saturday night that's just like, Oh, just another night at home. And suddenly, I'm critical.

Alison Cook [00:16:42] That's your seven part.

Jessica Honegger [00:16:44] That's my seven part. My seven part. I need fun. I need.

Alison Cook [00:16:49] And then and then your one part comes in.

Jessica Honegger [00:16:51] My one part came in and I just and I get critical. Then I get critical towards myself like, Oh my gosh, I'm being critical towards him. And he's like, Great guy. And he really rolls with the punches, though with me. And, you know, we're able to kind of, yeah, talk like this. I mean that it's been enneagram has been instrumental in my marriage for this reason because I'm able to say, Man, I think I was anticipating fun and that's what brings me life. And now I'm kind of staring at a night that I thought was going to be fun. And now it's just like another blah night. And I'm taking that out on you and I'm like, you go, go, make some fun for me, you know?

Alison Cook [00:17:29] Yeah, it's so true. And so what? That's such a great example of, I think, what the end [00:17:35]the power the enneagram is naming. It gives you a category, a name. So right there. It's also a shorthand, like in my work as a therapist. So right there with you, it's like, OK, there's that seven part we know. Of course you want fun. Of course your husband knows that about you. And then there's that one part that comes out, and it's a shorthand way without feeling the shame or the of being like, Oh, I got critical. You know, it gives you a language, a shared language to quickly identify what a pattern that is happening [27.8s] and that there's work. You know, you ask the question. It's so hard for people to know what number they are that that work that goes into figuring it out is so worth it on the back end. Because then you have this shared language. You know, when you're, you know, if I'm living with the six and my six is just worrying, worrying, worrying. I in my mind, I'm like, Oh yes, this is. This is what they do, you know? And I don't. It takes it out of a stigma. It takes it out of a shame, a shame place and just more of a and again, we don't want. That's where it bothers me. And also the other thing people do is use the number as a weapon. You're being such a bullying, right? Right. I don't like and it's instead it's a way of naming, you know, but our friends, Kurt and Dan, talk about naming is taming. It's not a way to shame or blame. It's a way to help understand what's happening. So when I have a client and I realize, OK, this is a four, I start to know what to look for so much more quickly and I start to know what to look for when they're in health. And I start to know what to look for when they're in stress. And it helps me. And again, I bring in the IFS language to go I hear that that part of you, you as I'm talking to a four, you know, it's like, I hear that that two part of you coming out that's needing to feel loved, right? And it's let let's see where are you in relationship to the one part of you? That's how you show up when you are getting closer to your best self. And it just kind of gives you this roadmap to figure out if for me, when I start now going to avoidance, I realize, Oh my gosh, that I'm under stress. I didn't even realize it. Then I'm going to that nine part of me that wants to check out, OK, what would it be? And I go, and I will literally say to myself, Where's that six part of me? That part of me? For me, it's to collaborate, to reach out, for help, to talk to somebody that's so hard for me to do because I want to do it all on my own and I have that resource to go, Where's that six part of me? And I find that six part of me inside because I have it, I have access to that part of me. Now I've learned to now deploy that six part of me and say, OK, where's that part of me that does know how to say, Hey, I need some help here. I'm struggling.

Jessica Honegger [00:20:14] I will say that for some people that identify as threes, which I have a lot of threes on our executive team, it's like we've got a lot of threes with two wings and you take threes are just so good at getting stuff done and executing and just bringing that energy and that achievement to the table. But I will say this struggle that I have, and I'd love your help and how to help my three friends. I don't trust people that can't be vulnerable. Mm. That is a huge blocker for me, and I have found sometimes that people that identify with threes, they're vulnerable, like months later when there was a bow on top. And I'm like, Is that really vulnerable? Like? I've had lunch with you every week for the past three months, and now you're telling me that you were struggling with this. And then I. But you work through it. And now tada here's the solution. And now you're telling me about it and I'm like, Is that even vulnerable? And for me, you cannot have connection without vulnerability. So I'm curious what your journey as a three with a two wing has been like to find vulnerability and therefore find connection?

Alison Cook [00:21:31] Right. Because the two together, if you're the two and the three together, kind of prohibit you from vulnerability either way, because you're there trying to be helpful or you're trying to be on top of it. Right? Yeah, this this is the story of my husband. I mean, just listening to you I was like, Oh yes, I've had this conversation with my husband. Because we have a deal, I mean, we because he's very direct. He likes things on the table. He is. What is he on the enneagram? I think he is an eight. We think he's an eight, but you know, he just comes right out with things. He's learned. He's also been through a lot of pain. He's had a lot of hard things in his life, so he's learned how to just he really, you know, it's a value. We put things on the table, and we talk about them and it doesn't matter what they are and he really means it. He has a ton of integrity. You know, it's at best sort of, you know, where it's like, they really mean what they say, and it's really hard for him because I can't do that. I'm always kind of maneuvering and figuring out when should I say it? When's the best time, you know, how to present it right? And so we have a deal and so what we do is we just say I tell him, I say I need two days, I need two days. You know, we put a time limit on it where and then I will be able to tell you as best I can what's happening inside of me. And some of that is that I need that time to figure it out myself. And some of it is honoring the genuineness of wanting to be able to present it in a way that I feel good about. You know, and that's genuine. That's genuine. I don't I genuinely don't want to, and I'm trained. I mean, I'm trained as a therapist. So this is I mean, it's just so hard for me. I am trained not to be vulnerable. You know, I'm trained to know how to only go into other people's pain, literally, you know, so this has been hard for me. It's, you know, I just have it. So where we how we've done it is kind of negotiated between the here and again. This is in relationships when you know what each other's numbers are, you have some grace, but you also then have to compromise. You have to find a middle ground. It's like, Okay, he needs me to be direct. That's going to be hard for me. I got to go inside, do the work. It's going to take me a little bit of time. Then I can come up with it and I might even write it sometimes. And I found that that's a little bit easier for me. If I can write it down and then hand him the sticky note or hand it to him on a piece of paper, because that's just easier for me. For some reason.

Jessica Honegger: [00:23:47] It's like one layer removed, maybe vulnerability a little bit. So our first episode in this series was about attachment with Curt Thompson and the feedback on that episode. I mean, people, just we just it was a primer. I mean, it was a very basic primer on attachment, but I have become more curious about attachment and the enneagram because I think about sevens, we want to avoid pain or we don't want it. We're afraid that if we just stop, we'll actually have to feel. And so we often don't want to stop. So it's interesting because I think about my friends that are threes. I mean, they can veg out like it is a sport. I mean, it blows. I mean, I'm like them and they ran hard. One of my girlfriends, she's an author and I mean, she will run so hard and then like, she'll be like, Oh yeah, I'm on day three of binging the latest Netflix thing. And I'm like, It's impressive to me. I'm like, I wish I could veg like that, but I just for me that that I'm like, Oh my gosh, that would make me feel depressed if I was just vegging. And then the idea of even thinking I would have to feel depressed makes me feel like, No, no, no, no, I just keep going. Yeah. And so I've wondered, are all sevens anxiously attached? Because I definitely identify with more with anxious attachment than with avoidant? And do you think threes are actually really a little bit more of that avoidant and can just kind of compartmentalize and put these different parts aside and they're basically avoiding connection? Have you thought about attachment and the enneagram?

Alison Cook [00:25:24] Yeah, it's a really good question. It's sort of a chicken or egg question because we assume that attachment is rooted in childhood experiences. So presumably, theoretically, you could have a securely attached three four or five six seven eight or nine two or one right. Any number could be securely attached. [00:25:41]Any number could be avoidant, any number could be, you know, all the different attachment styles because that would be rooted in childhood wounding. But what it raises is the question of is the enneagram something that is our is our is our core enneagram number, something that is conditioned through our childhood experiences, or is it more something related to how we're innately wired, isn't the nature nurture question? [25.7s]

Jessica Honegger [00:26:08] that's what I'm very curious about that

Alison Cook [00:26:10] that's what you're asking, right?

Jessica Honegger [00:26:12] Because if you're right, yeah,

Alison Cook [00:26:14] if it's conditioned, then your question, it might and may well be so. So then you would get. OK, so certain numbers you can look at and say, OK, these are more avoidant types. These are more anxious types.

Jessica Honegger [00:26:26] I mean, think about an enneagram eight. I mean, they definitely seem more avoidant.

Alison Cook [00:26:34] Yeah, it's true. I mean, I think so. Does every number have its way of being avoidant or anxious? Yeah, because even the three really, I mean, if I look at myself, it's really anxiety underneath it. It's an anxious attachment. The reason I'm numbing out is because I'm alone and because I don't know how to reach out for help, for connection. And yes, OK. So it's avoidance. But it's also there's also a lot of anxious attachment in my life, for sure. I just masquerade it differently. So I don't know. This is this is this is a big question. I think I want to look more into it. I don't feel like I had the definitive answer on it because I know, I know what you're saying. Some do show up as more avoidant, right

Jessica Honegger [00:27:20] or more anxious, like a seven or a six. Right.

Alison Cook [00:27:24] Or five tend to be a little bit more avoidant. They go into themselves versus trying to attach to other people, ride the fire because internally. So you could make a case for that, but I'd have to do a little more research on it.

Jessica Honegger [00:27:38] So as we wrap up this series, you are an expert in IFS and we did a wonderful episode on that. We have enneagram that we're talking about today, which so many people are familiar with, and they come back, go back and listen to some of the other episodes we've done on enneagram. We've talked about attachment. We've talked about parenting and self-awareness with Dan Siegel. We've talked about the MBTI, the Myers-Briggs. We've talked about the DiSC profile and emotional intelligence. What are some of these tools that you find most helpful in your practice with clients?

Alison Cook [00:28:20] I mean, they're all great. I will say I just want to add one more footnote to the nature nurture. I mean, really in psychology, a lot of this stuff, they now believe there's only very few qualities they believe to be innate. Right, right. So we do know that most of these types, I don't think there's just been a ton of empirical research on the enneagram. So that's why it's kind of fun to noodle it around what we do know about it and the reason so in answer to the question, I think for me, the reason I really like the overlay of the enneagram and IFS because it gives you a path. I think attachment style is helpful to know. You need to know, you need to understand it, but it doesn't really necessary. It kind of explains what's happening. [00:29:06]What I think the enneagram overlaid with the IFS and same with the MBTI, it kind of gives you a OK, this is why I'm this way. And introversion in particular is one of those qualities that they know is more, you know, it is who you are. It's harder to change out of, although a lot of people are on a spectrum with it. But what the enneagram does is it does give you that pass and same with Part's work. It gives you a way forward. So you're not just trapped in this sort of like you started out by saying, this is just who I am. There's actually always a way forward. There's always a way to grow deeper. [35.9s] And so when I know, OK, so for me, I know I've got those numbers inside, sometimes they're duking it out with each other. But through parts work, I can begin to help that three part of me, that two part of me, that nine part of me become healthier, become more whole, move toward the better version of myself. So I'm not just a victim of my no, I'm not just a victim, you know, of my type. And so that's where I like that movement and that the new ground does provide us where

Jessica Honegger [00:30:16] it is really dynamic. I mean, even when you think about what the model looks like, there's arrows pointing to different places and the idea is that you're moving towards health. So it's not so much. Oh, I am a seven. I'm in health, I'm a five. So I'm on this journey towards learning contentment and learning that enough is enough, and I don't always need more in order to protect myself from pain. And IFS, same thing, you can keep discovering these different parts of you. And it's just so dynamic and helpful. So and again, you know, the reason we did this series is not just we want to know ourselves so that we can better have an impact on other people. Right. It's not. The end goal isn't just to know ourselves, the end goal is that through knowing ourselves, we can create space for other people to then know themselves.

Alison Cook [00:31:11] Right, right. And for true vulnerability and authenticity, which leads to better connect, deeper connection with others. [00:31:18]So that's where you're not just your number, you're speaking on one of the things we like to talk about in IFS you're speaking on behalf of the part of you. So I can say the three part of me does not want to share this, but I can ask that part of me to step aside because I want you to know what's going on inside of me because I now know how to access that other deeper, more vulnerable part of me. And then I'm actually connecting authentically with you, you know, and you're able to respond. [28.4s] We develop this core strength, or we can actually show up in the world not only to empower other people, but in authentic. And people are so starved for that kind of authentic connection that's really coming from who we are deep inside, not the masks that we're putting on. And so that, you know, that just creates a better world for everybody. It creates a better world in our families, better way of connecting with our kids. You know, when we can speak on behalf of what's really happening inside, even if it is, you know, you like you with your husband. I'm speaking on behalf of the part of me that really wanted to have fun tonight. You know, you're speaking not from it, which is why aren't you planning something fun? You're speaking on behalf of it, which is that part of me is bummed, which is such an easier way for the other person to receive it. You're still and you're connecting to each other and you're creating the types of relationships that really do bring more life into our world more healing, more goodness, more beauty into our world,

Jessica Honegger [00:32:47] which is really what we want to be doing, right? This is yes, it's human flourishing. Human flourishing is about connection and authenticity and vulnerability. And when we can show up like that and just to, you know, integrate the interpersonal neurobiology, I mean that we aren't actually individuals. We are part of a we. [00:33:09]And I think that is ultimately what I love about parts work because it is about a we and the enneagram as well as about this. We and I think the more we can see ourselves as we end, choose these places of trust and vulnerability, we really can change the world. I mean, we really can be a place of healing and the world needs that now more than ever, because we've just become so much more divided over the last year. But as we can become more aware of ourselves, we can become more non anxious, more present and then we create that capacity and the space for other people to be able to be that as well. [43.2s]

Alison Cook [00:33:53] Yes, yes. And we create this space to be able to have these types of conversations, you know, and to be able to work through hard things. [00:34:00]The goal of a relationship, any relationship, any type of helping relationship, marital relationship, child parent relationship isn't to never have to work through hard things. We're going to have to. [11.2s] But when we have these tools that you're giving us through this series, it is amazing. It's changed my life to be able to sit with people and say, I need you to know this is going to be hard for me. I just that's vulnerable, right? You know, this is going to be hard for me. And so if you're going to walk with me, we're going to bump up against this. [00:34:29]And I always say to people, that's the kind of thing that you need to look for in somebody. Not that they're showing up perfectly. It's that they can tell you what's going to be hard about being with them, what's going to be hard about working with them? Because then you can talk through it, then you can have a baseline to work from. So that's what these tools are designed to do is to give you the confidence to be able to say This is what's true about me. Here's what's good. Here's what's going to be hard and I'm OK with it. I'm at peace with it. So therefore I'm OK with inviting you into it, and then you're at peace with it, you know, and it just multiplies. [32.7s]

Jessica Honegger [00:35:04] So good. The perfect way to wrap it all up. Thank you so much.

Alison Cook [00:35:07] Thanks, Jessica. Thank you for this series.

Jessica Honegger [00:35:14] What a journey we have taken over the last few weeks, I would love to get to hear from you. I want to hear what an aha moment has been. Maybe you realize, Oh my goodness. That's why I react that way. Maybe you had taken the DiSC assessment or the EQ assessment and have a new take away about yourself. Head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave a review. Let us know what you learn in this series, what you liked about the series and make sure you follow Going Scared on Spotify. Download all the episodes. Binge them over the break if you want, share them. I truly do believe that self-awareness is the answer on how we can begin to show up in a non-anxious way in the people's lives that are around us. It's just so critical. OK, I'm going to miss you. We're going to take a little break, but we're going to be back in the new year. We are going to start up again in a few weeks, and I was super surprised about this. But I did a poll on Instagram and you guys want to talk about habits. OK, well, I am not the most habitual person in the whole world. You're going to hear all about that. So this habit series is really going to be for the reluctant habit keeper. So if your reluctant habit keeper, I cannot wait to share these conversations with you in the new year. Thank you so much for being a Going Scared listener. This has been a really fun journey over the last few weeks. I can't wait to be back with you in the new year. Thanks so much for your support. I couldn't have a podcast if nobody listened, so I'm really grateful to have you tuning in and listening week after week. Today's music is by Ellie Holcomb, and I'm Jessica Honegger. Until next time, let's take each other by the hand and keep going scared. See you next year.