Summer Mini-Series Episode 1: Enneagram Journey

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Going Scared podcast. This is your host, Jessica Honegger, founder of the world changing brand Noonday Collection. Join me here every week for conversations that encourage you to live a life of purpose by leaving comfort and going scared. As you know, if you listen to the last series, the Habit series really rocked my world. First of all, my skin is changed. I have kept up with my skin routine. I've come up with my water routine and that series established some new habits in my life. But I am so excited about this new series because it is about the Enneagram and I am just one of those guys. I haven't gotten tired of this. I have not gotten tired about talking about the enneagram now. I am very hesitant and very aware to not identify and say you are this or identify people by their number. That is absolutely not the point of your number. In fact, with my kids say stuff like that, I'm like, Yeah, exactly. And 8s go to 2 in health, let's be helpful. Okay. So for real, I think we need to be careful when we just let the enneagram become all consuming. But I think as you'll hear again today, I think just self-awareness truly is the beginning of becoming a person who can show up in the world in a way that makes a kind and good and selfless impact. That really is what self-awareness is, and that is what the enneagram does. So we invited nine people on the show to a panel, nine of us on Zoom. I didn't know how it would work, but I was so impressed with how vulnerably every single person showed up. So the first person is Sruthi Parker. She is a one and is a lifestyle blogger and storyteller behind The Honest Shruth. Our number two is the famous and most wise enneagram speaker and coach Suzanne Stabile. Her knowledge of the enneagram brings us books like The Road Back to You, The Path Between Us, and the Journey to Wholeness. Representing three is my good friend here in Austin, the always hilarious author, speaker and blogger Jenn Hatmaker. On the panel as a four is another friend of mine who's also my neighbor and an amazing artist, speaker and writer Scott Erickson, who is known for his Instagram account, Scott the Painter. We also have professional homemaker and founder of theNester.com, Myquillyn Smith, who is representing the fives of the world. My newest friend, who I thought really represented success so well, is Ashton Brye, and she brought the magic and she is behind the enneagram art of Ashton creates on Instagram and Etsy. I'll be in the number seven. You guys you guys got that. And then our number eight is my kindred spirit. I freakin love this guy, Sam Collier, lead pastor, speaker and author representing the Eights. And last but not least, we have our diversity expert, unity champion and founder of Be the Bridge, my friend Tasha Morrison, representing the nations of the world. In today's episode, I met with the enneagram panel who double as my friends to kick off our series, discuss the enneagram and just cure their journey to finding their Enneagram number, which I always love to hear that moment when you thought that enneagram was a cult and or an occult, or you thought it looked like the pentagram, and then suddenly it changes your life. We all have that moment. And then in the following weeks, we're going to dove into how these numbers influence each person on vacation and the workplace and how we see others. But for this week, I want you to meet the panel and hear about their journey discovering the Enneagram. Welcome, everybody. Thank you so much. This is really fun, super fun for me. And I know it's going to be fun for all of us. I like to be spontaneous. I cannot even drive to the office on the same route without getting bored out of my mind. So I change it up frequently. So we're not going to go one through nine because that'll drive me crazy. I think that's boring. So I'm going to start with some one and then we'll go around. So if I say, Oh, Susie, and why don't you go first? She'll say as a two, and then the three will follow and then the four. And I know that's confusing, but just dial into that and I'm going to guide you along the way. So we're going to kick it off first with I want to hear from your own words. How do you say you do what you do? You know, like the words that aren't necessarily fully on your website. And I am going to start with Suzanne Stabile.

I say that I am a public teacher and that I am doing that because it's my hope to add compassion to every experience in the world.

Hmm. Thank you, Scott.

I make my vocation as a professional artist, which is like a mystery for a lot of people when you say that. But I do that through a number of things. I'm an image maker, some an illustrator, painter. I'm an author and like to make experiences through books. And then I'm a performing artist because I'm artsy fartsy all the way down. So that's what I that's what takes up my time vocationally.

Scott is also my neighbor and my daughter babysits for their children, you left that part out.

That is true. That is true.

All right. Myquillyn.

Oh, I help women create the home they've always wanted so that they can use it the way they've always dreamed. I do that through online classes, dumb Instagram reels, books, just whatever way they want it. That fits with my personality. So it's usually women who won't hire a decorator but just want to see some improvements in their home.

Love it, A.B.

I am a full-time creator and artist, so I do a lot of graphic design and different images across a lot of different platforms. But I am best known for my Instagram account that focuses heavily on Enneagram artwork.

Love it.

Yeah.

Tasha.

I am Latasha Morrison. I am a speaker, author, trainer. Just trying to help with racial ignorance through knowledge. One person at a time.

People are shocked to hear you're a nine. I'm so excited to dive into that today.

Oh, my gosh.

So we're seeing a five and a nine. Public figure is not an easy thing. Let me just tell you.

Mm hmm. No, I mean, that's because Tasha's eight wing is hot. That's why it's true.

I'm a unicorn.

That's right. That's right. Sam, what about you?

Oh eight. I'm all. Which means I'm a non-conformist. So in saying my titles is weird for me right now. But I'm here. I'm a lead pastor, consultant, public speaker in the corporate world. And I would I guess I would say my heart cry is helping people discover their significance. And I guess underneath that is helping to unite our world racially. So me and Tasha have a lot that we connect on. On that end, I think my specific contribution in that space is on Sunday morning. What does it look like to worship together, even though we look different and understand our differences and create a better world? So.

Love that, Shruthi.

Hey, guys. So I'm an enneagram one. And when I'm not changing a diaper, I am a storyteller. I tend to share stories on Instagram or my blog through the perspectives that God gave me, which would be a Hindu to Christian convert, a mother, an immigrant, somebody who is unashamedly honest but also softened by grace. And that's what I do full time.

Awesome, thank you so much. All right. Well, this is fun and spicy, so I'm so curious. I feel like we all have those moments of discovering the Enneagram and then really discovering the Enneagram. So I will share that moment for me and then the journey that actually where I realized this was going to make a difference in my life. So I this is Jessica and I am an Enneagram seven with a six wing. Though at work I show up much more with an eight wing, but I have a deep loyalty, a lot of that. I borrow a lot from the six and I was at a conference the first time I discovered the Enneagram. I remember it was a lunch time where everyone's eating lunch and it's someone sponsoring the conference, and so they're trying to talk over everyone eating. And we had just one piece of paper on our table. I just thought, Oh, that's interesting. That's a pentagram. Because it was all it was, was a round circle with the lines. And then on each point, it didn't have the number. It had sort of the name, you know, reformer, the enthusiast. And just from listening to that speaker and looking at that piece of paper, I thought, Oh, I'm a nine. Where that came from, I am furthest from a nine. I have a extreme bias towards action. So who knows what I was thinking in that moment, but I didn't really go on a deep dive at that time. I was still a bit skeptical and still thought it looked like the pentagram. And it was probably within the next couple of years that I attended a full day with about ten of us, me and my husband. It was a preview before a conference was starting a leadership conference and it was with Ian Croan and we spent a day with him and about ten of us. And as you can imagine, that was a severe, deep dive. And the immediate impact that it had on my life was for sure with my husband, who is an enneagram one. It gave us just a new language. We came up with a whole term for him. We call him Vacation Joe because he literally transforms to a different person on vacation and says, Sometimes when he's stressed, I'm like, I need Vacation Joe right now. I need a Vacation Joe And then it also transformed my relationship with my business partner. I share my company completely, 50/50 with a business partner. So I have two husbands. It's really fun. He is an eight. So imagine we show up very, very differently together. We are a lot more explosive and his desire to want to control absolutely rubs up against my desire for freedom. So we have had to work through a lot. We've been through marriage counseling ourselves, business marriage counseling. But I would say that has been my primary way where it has been transformational for me. So I'm going to hop on over to Myquillyn and Myquillyn is going to share. I want her to have the space because she is a five. And she said, I don't think I'm going to be able to get any words in with this panel, Jessica.

And it was fine with me if I didn't get or that. Actually, no, I, like you, do not have a story that I can think back to and remember the moment. But I do remember that I immediately identified with the five. And it was such a relief. Same thing that I felt like I actually now have a new vocabulary. And really what it did, learning about the Enneagram and realizing that, first of all, there are other people like me. I think pre Enneagram, I just always kind of assumed I was a weirdo. I just thought normal people wanted to stay up late and go to concerts and party and be in New York City. And I, even as a teenager, never wanted to do that. Want to stay home with my parents on Friday night while my sister went out. She was a cheerleader

and I was picking my nose in my room, you know, hairspraying flowers that were pressed to my wall. And I just always thought something was wrong with me until the Enneagram. And that was wonderful and in some way made me a little bit mad because I'm like, This world is run by people not like me, like church, the grocery store, like everything is run for people who and I'm not the only one and protecting my energy and really valuing time, all of those things. It was just so wonderful to even think back to like a writer's retreat that everything got started at midnight and I couldn't do it. I remember one time faking that I had diarrhea and announcing it to everyone proudly. Like, Well, I have diarrhea. I got to go to bed. And I was so happy to go to bed.

And I think, like, why don't I just say I, I can't I cannot hang because there was other people in the group that felt the same way, but I just felt like I was the only one. I was stupid for not being able and not having the wherewithal to do all of this stuff.

That's so powerful. I'm curious if any of you guys are really close intimate work with partners. Spouse with a five. Okay, Suzanne, tell us about that.

Well, I'm a two and my mom was five. And my best friend since I was 18 and I'm 71 is five. So all of my life is influenced by women who are fives and by the difference in me and them. However, I think the reality is that it's possible for a two and a five to be together in a long term relationship and recognize that they each do the thing the other one doesn't want to do. Like, I talk and my friend Carolyn doesn't want to talk. She wants to listen. And I like to do things outside the house or our apartment when we lived together years and years ago. And she likes to do stuff at home. It's like there is a way to make the gifts of relationships fit with one another. If you're willing to be honest about what you like and what you don't like. Sorry, I started teaching there. I'm going to try really hard.

I'm expecting that. Okay. I'm expecting that. Very full freedom to be yourself.

I love my I love my home and we've lived in parsonage is so over the years. So before we were able to own our own home with my husband as a Methodist pastor, we took what we got. Which would have made what you do, Myquillyn, a very important in my world, because I couldn't do much that would change things permanently. So I'm sorry I missed you for the first 30 years of all of this, and now we on our home. I'd love to share some of my ways of seeing with your ways of seeing.

Hmm. That's the power of the enneagram truly is being able to put on other lenses and create empathy for all of us. Okay, Ashton, you are Enneagram six.

So for me, I started my Instagram account in 2019 and I saw everyone posting about the Enneagram, the enneagram, the enneagram. And I couldn't understand, like, what was going on. And I kind of initially thought it was just like another personality test, like, not much to it, you know, you take it for fun and that's kind of it. But we as it continued to grow, I started looking into it, I started reading about it, and I was shocked to see all of the things that you can learn from it. So initially I thought I was an eight because I have a tendency to be very aggressive. But the more I talked to some Enneagram coaches and really looked into it and I realized that I am not an eight, I am truly a six. Just counterpoint, do you not think and thank you not thank you. I, I just really dove into it and it helped me understand more of why I do the things that I do and the way that I respond to things and that I'm not completely like different from everyone else. I just have a different mindset that someone else might not have going into a situation with how I prepare for things or with how I overthink certain situations, or the way I set myself up for certain things. And especially when it comes to like sharing things with a few hundred thousand people every day I overprepare and I overdo, and I can really see my enneagram coming out in that, talking to people, really getting into it and just trying to understand what I was sharing and making sure I was sharing it correctly because I didn't want to go into something and not do it right. So that was my biggest fear. And so I feel like my Enneagram type played into that because I wanted to be super prepared and super aware. But the more I breathe than the more I've learned, I realized that the Enneagram is kind of like a bucket, and you're just always digging out of that bucket and you're always finding more out. You know, you can think like, Oh, I did this one way and this is why. But then you read something else and you're like, Okay, well, maybe this was another like aspect of my type, and that was why. So that's kind of a roundabout way of it. That's, that's how I kind of came to the Enneagram was through my Instagram and just three trends, which I'm kind of embarrassed to say. I just jumped on a trend, but I did.

Hey, there are good trends out there.

There are, but there is like a little part of me that wants to be a four. Maybe it's the artist that I'm like, I don't want to be like everybody else. I don't want to just jump on every trend. And so I was I struggled with that for a while. I was like, I don't want to just do it because everybody else is doing it. I want to do it because I really believe in it and I think it's helpful. And so it is helpful.

Well, you have Jenn Hatmaker to thank for receiving at least some questions ahead of time because I talked with Jenn this week and as the spontaneous seven who likes to go with the flow. I was not going to prepare anyone. I thought no. And Jenn was like, Are you kidding me? I mean, at correlating the Enneagram with this and that, this can this is going to involve some thought and I'm like spoken from the enneagram three who really needs to be prepared. But I know you probably appreciated that too, Ashton.

Yes. Well, it it's like a it's two sided for me because I did appreciate the preparation, but then I spent way too much time like overanalyzing and wanting to just crawl into a hole and not actually do it anymore because I didn't think I would do it properly. So thank you, Jenn, but also not thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, I hear that. I can understand that part of you.

I'll write. I'll write an email about it later.

Well, Sam, I know you really prepared since you were out in the middle of your babymoon in Jamaica. So tell us about your Instagram journey.

Well, as.

As an eight.

As an eight and weighing seven, I prepared a lot. My first I have been looking over the notes, the emails, writing my notes. And no, I just hopped on and I said, I'm going to wing it and I'm excited about it. But I did pull up a few things just in case I need to reference. I will say, you know, and this is the challenge as the eight coming out, we are not aggressive. We're just passionate.

Thank you.

But you actually write because I think as we talk about my journey, I really felt that I wasn't aggressive for a really long time until I got married. And Toni said, Hey, you're a little aggressive. I said, I'm aggressive? I'm passionate. And Oh, and then I started hearing it from other people, Hey, you're a little aggressive. I'm like, I am not aggressive. I care a lot about the word. And then I said, You know what? I may be aggressive, but in my mind I thought it was passion. And I think, you know, with the enneagram, what the Enneagram afforded me was the opportunity to understand how other people receive me, which my whole life I've, you know, at the seven and I think Jessica, you talked about it like in my life I'm a seven so everybody thinks I'm a the seven is like oh, seven, seven. So then when I say I'm an eight, everybody goes, You're an eight. I'm like, Yeah, but it doesn't really show up unless I care about something or unless I'm launching something because at work I show up as an eight and for the longest, and I don't want to mispronounce the name is it Myquillyn? And I love what she was just saying about, you know, for me, I didn't, you know, learning that other people are not like me was really big for me because I didn't understand why people like, well, why, why, why are your feelings hurt that I, I just was saying it this way, and I just thought everybody was overly sensitive and insecure and had low self-esteem, but the reality was, oh, it's not them. I think it might be me. And so it's helped me become a better leader and equally honest, it's helped me foster empathy at a higher level. And so the Enneagram, you know, it's helped me love people better. And so I think I really started to figure that out and value it and really discovered that I was an eight to answer the question more specifically, when other people started telling me what it was like being on the other side and stand it. Mm hmm. So I'll stop there because I can keep going with communicators, and I don't want to be the one that everybody's worried about.

It's okay. I'm on it. I am stewarding that. So you'll just feel free to talk. And let me interrupt. I just want this to be a really safe, fun place.

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Okay. Tasha, Enneagram nine. But in justice work so everyone assumes you're an eight.

Yeah. Everyone assumes I'm and eight. I'm a nine. I was a reluctant nine because I would read everything about the nine, and I'm like. That's not. Me. Like, because I thought nines were kind of passive or I interpreted as lazy. So I think for me, when I first heard about the Enneagram was a few years ago when I was living in Austin, and it was kind of in one ear out the other. And then I heard, I think Jenny Stevens was talking about it again. It was in one ear, out the other. I just was like, Oh, I don't want to hear about another test. But then when I read some things, some of my friends were reading it, I was like, I'm a three. I just said, I'm a three. That's what I am. I'm a three right here. And when I took the test, I was like a nine off the chart. I've taken the test like three times and I'm a nine like very high nine off the charts, but I have a very strong eight wing. And so in I am one, but I am definitely a nine to my core. And it comes up when you work decisions I can make. But when it comes to like sometimes personal decisions, like if you ask me right now, like, oh, where do you want to go to eat? What do you feel like? We'll be sitting here until 5:00 and I still won't make a decision and I'm going to push it back on you. So that's when it shows up. And then I'm an extrovert, like I'm also an extrovert, but I'm like, I have to refuel and recharge. And so I do have to have like, like a long time, you know, as a as a nine when it says like conflict, I don't like conflict, but I'll deal with conflict. So within the organization having to deal with conflict all the time like that is my work. Like I have to live in that space all the time. And so I think that has helped out a lot and crossed over into a lot of personal things too, where in my friendships. Like I feel like my friends that are threes bring out the best in me. Mm hmm. Which is, like, weird. And so I don't know what that is. And I think when I looked at, like, my growth is like a three, but my subtype is also social for nine. So I'm a very complex nine, not your I guess textbooks in a way but I work from a lot of the help is of a nine.

Well I love nines because I'm able to talk them into anything. My mom's a nine. And I talk to you into this podcast because you're like, that is a writing day. You said don't even send it to my email. I don't want my assistant to see it. Please text me. So you weren't even willing to tell your assistant, Hey, I'm going to make a choice to do this podcast. And I asked you several times, I'm like, But you have to, because I don't know nine communicators. So I love nine because I'm like, Oh, you're always up for the fun and I can talk you into anything. But Suzanne had a moment of wisdom for us or for you, Tasha.

I'm all about using arrows and talking about them different ways, but my way of talking about following the arrows in the end of your arm is to talk about stress and security. And the reality is, Tasha, that you become a three when you're secure, so you become Jenn and in there isn't leftover from that generally for nines. Sometimes you might have leftover because your eight wing causes you to say things you didn't really want to say at that moment to those people. But the fact that you but you become the best of a three when you're feeling secure explains why you tested that way as a nine, but you set like a three. All of that fits in my world view of the enneagram. Hmm.

There you go. There you go. Okay.

Now, I'm not an enneagram educator like that.

You have to have one on the panel. Our Jedi is with us. Shruthi, Enneagram one. Your journey.

So Enneagram has been really interesting for me because. I'll preface this with the first quote I ever memorized as a child was Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching. And that was in like second grade. And I just remember being like in places alone and thinking to myself, I must do the right thing, even if no one is watching. And I didn't realize as a child, you know, coming from more of a shame based culture and also just having this immense pressure on myself. I used to think everything was black and white and, you know, 95 and below unacceptable must hit this specific grade or with sports, you know, you can't get second place. We didn't display second place trophies in my home. You know, things like that. And when I encountered the Enneagram, I learned so much of my behavior as an adult that was unhealthy or hurting me, was based off of this need to be a perfectionist as a child. And as an adult, it's been really freeing to learn that there's so much gray, so much gray. And also humbling, frankly, because I was busy, like, pointing out planks and everyone's faces and kind of learning, Hey, you need to calm down and you need to learn people are made differently and you need to learn empathy. So in the Enneagram I felt for me, I mean, I already sound like a one speaking, but it was a form of self-critique for myself.

The word critique that is that is something a one would say.

And it's not a bad thing. I don't mind it. I like to be better every day for sure. But I also encountered the other side of, you know, like in a personal journey of like grace or being able to apply grace while being a one and kind of going from this unhealthy black and white. Everything is either this way or this way to. Hey, maybe you think people do things differently, and that's okay. That. It's been quite a journey for me. I've really appreciated the Enneagram in that way.

So much freedom. So much freedom. Suzy in our two. Your journey, which I actually don't know your journey, but you've. You've been rocking it longer than any of us.

Yeah, 30 years ago. My husband is a former Catholic priest and he knew of Richard Rohr and he called him one day and said, My wife and I would like to come talk with you. Is that a possibility? And he said, sure. And we went to Albuquerque and spent our first of many afternoons with Richard. And as we were leaving, he handed me a manuscript for a book and said, you know, I think you might be interested in this. Seems like you would take to this pretty well. And it was his first Enneagram book. And so I devoured it and loved it. And we had started then to meet with him once a quarter and every time I went I wanted to talk more about that and less about the fact that he was our spiritual director and I was supposed to be working on the growing spiritually stuff. So I tried, you know, when you're with an ex priest and a priest I didn't have a chance anyway with the spirituality gig. So I just went with the enneagram and then he challenged me not to talk about it for five years. Just keep learning. And I did. And so that's my initial experience. And I'm very thankful for it, obviously.

Hmm. I love that story. Thank you. Jen our three.

Suzanne has been so instructive for me, actually one of my best teachers. But the first time I heard about the Enneagram was years and years and years ago to us through Shauna Niequist. She how she was, I like to say, an early adopter, but that's not that doesn't even make sense because enneagram's been around forever. But in my world, she was. And I remember she her us going on and on and on about it. And I was like, This sounds like voodoo. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Just do your work, you know, just, like, do work. And she was like, I just know you, Jenn and I know you're a seven. I'm like, okay, fine. Let me read the damn thing. Like, I just let me figure it out. And so, of course, I read all the descriptions and, you know, the stress that I'm like, I want to be that seven. That's what I want to be. Because, you know, I'm a three, so I want to win the Enneagram. And to me, the seven wins, that's the winning number. So I'm like, That's the most fun. I'm fun. Like, I'm.

You're more fun than me girl, I have to tell you.

You and I both know that's a lie, because then, of course, I take the test and I'm like a three with a three wing, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have any nuance. It was really jarring for me at first to really discover more about the enneagram, but ultimately about myself, because I recognized my number primarily based on the description of how a three disintegrates. That's when it came into real sharp relief for me, like, oh golly, that's those are all my demons. Like, that's I'm so hard on myself almost at almost all times I am thinking I could be working harder and I could be doing this better at everything, fill in the category, everything. And I've been that way for a really, really long time. My mom and dad used to say that, like, if they wanted to get me to do anything, they just needed to assign some sort of contest to it. Like, is there a prize? Is there a gold medal or a trophy that we can put on this thing? Because then she will just be like dog chasing the carrot. And so it threw a lot of clarity on me as a kid. But really, I think where it served me best and this has been mentioned already by some of the other folks here, is that it helped me understand other people better, too. I also kind of like Sam just thought, what's wrong with everyone? You know, like what? And I'm kind of conflict averse, you know, I'm three. I like everything shiny. I'm glass half full. I'm an eternal optimist. I am hope springs eternal. And so I'm like, what's everybody's problem like? And stop being difficult and why are your feelings hurt? And like, I just didn't I just thought everybody was having the wrong reactions to the world. And so learning just about how other people perceive everything, people, a social setting, conflict was really instructive for me. Oh, okay. There's this is not better or worse, right or wrong. It's just different. And it helped me so much because I'm one of my pillars inside. My work is justice. And so understanding that we come to justice conversations differently was helpful. As a leader, I'm like, Okay, I cannot just lead in this one way. In this one note that I have, I've got to find a way to connect. And so and then of course, wildly helpful in relationships. I found it really useful as a parent. You know what's hard to have a three mom, you know, like high achieving just I assumed why wouldn't you want to highly achieve right. Do you have more hours in the day? Then get it done. And so that's helped me like really ratchet it down and honor and love my kids as they are how they are. You know, I always tell my community, you know, let's raise the kids that we have, not the kids that we were. And so it's been really helpful in that regard. But anyway, I'm just an absolute amateur at it, but it not to hear me talk about it. You'd think that I went. I have a Ph.D. in the Enneagram and you know, I'm dating somebody and he's so funny because he's black and he's like, This is white girl shit. I'm like, Well, he's a seven and he's a seven. Yeah. He's like, I've never had to talk more about the enneagram than when I just entered your white world. I'm like, Yeah, I know, we love it. We love it. Here, have it. Pull up a chair. Yeah.

Speaking of parenting, I can tell you.

I know you're here, Sam, and I can't wait to take a picture of you and send it to him and be like, look, look here. Representation, right? In the enneagram space.

That is true. Most of the white friends know about it. Most of my black friends, unless they're connected into white space, they're like what? Know what? Yes, it is. And not only know, because I live in Austin, you know, if I'm going out with them now. So my Tasha.

Hey, Sam and Toni are there in Atlanta with you.

But he was connected to white space.

As black people discover it. They are excited about it. They like, Oh, well, this makes sense, but you do have to cross over to get it though. You do have.

So it's a crossover. It's a crossover. Speaking of parenting, you know, Jen, you're talking about a three mom. I mean, being a seven mom, my poor kids, I will driving out of the driveway saying, here's where we're going. And then I'm halfway down the block and I've come up with three other ideas, three other plans. And they I mean, even this happened on Saturday. And it was later, one of my kids said, Mom, it was just very confusing this morning. And I was like, I'm sorry. That was totally on me. That was totally on me. Okay, Scott, our four. Our brooding four. Tell us about your journey.

Well, I, I feel like I encountered the enneagram, but through a different metaphor and then learning the material later on, I was like, Oh yeah, I kind of intuited this in my late twenties as a high school teacher, and I just had this sense that there was something else I was being invited to. And I remember sitting at this coffee shop in Seattle, very cliché and, and I and I was like, I think the best way I can be in the world is to do what I'm best at. And at the time it was being an artist, which I wasn't good at, but I was like, and that kind of revelation was very disappointing because I was like, I was like, I have all these friends in the world doing important things and what I'm supposed to just be in a room being like, Here's my feelings, you know, it just felt very insignificant. And the metaphor that came to me was from this nineties environmental propaganda cartoon called Captain Planet, which we don't need to go into the ins and outs of Captain Planet, but there's Gaia, the Earth Spirit, played by Whoopi Goldberg, and she gives these five magic rings to teenagers around the world. Brilliant idea to save the planet from polluters. And there's these four rings that are very powerful, like earth and fire and wind and water. And then there's this fifth kid from the Amazon named Mati, and he's got a pet monkey, but he gets the power of heart, which is his power's to convince people to have empathy and to care for the planet. And I remember thinking in this scenario, if there's, like good and evil fighting it out, there's just one guy there going, I just want you to feel and that person sounds like they're going to get their butt kicked. So I just in that moment, I felt like I was like, I guess my power is feeling. I was like, okay, if this is what I'm supposed to say yes to, I'll say yes to it. And then I learned as an artist that actually, like, you can have all the guns and money in the world. But really what changes people is the power of knowing how to converse about the heart and the power of emotions and stuff. So that was kind of like an early for me understanding myself. And then when I came across the enneagram, I was like, Oh, this is all of that. But what I appreciated it, just like Jen was saying, is learning how I disintegrate, like learning what my fear and my motivation there is. And that was probably the balance I needed in thinking about like, well, what, you know, when I I'm just in it's, you know, as all of us, as we're on a journey of our lives, as we get older, we just kind of rest into who we are. And I I'm less trying to be so many other things and versus like, uh, like, especially with, like speaking in religious communities or something like that. I'm like, I'm not the person if you want them to dissect the Greek, you know, that's not me. I'm the person who's like, Why is this a story that's happening right now? Just like it was happening about then? Where's the heart connection, the emotion? Where's the authenticity? That is, those are my strengths. And as so much agreement with everybody else about learning in relationships and all of that kind of stuff, that's very helpful to do. I it's very helpful to know that probably my front facing experience of everything is emotional and that is not necessarily reality. And so I have to always go, I know I feel this way, but that might not be what's happening. But it's very helpful when. I know you're surrounded by all of you achievers and motivators and go getters and stuff and being like, Oh, let's, let's step back a second and get to like what we're really talking about here and the authenticity that's happening. So I think the I think the four and look, I agree. I'm like I feel like seven's win the win the day because I just always live with a certain sense that life is real shitty and sad. I've had holy experiences with sadness at Disneyland. You know, Eeyore is my spirit animal, and so it is hard, you know, I think the fours are the most likely to commit suicide. It is a weird kind of framework of things, but. But as a healthy force. That's why for me, it's been really important to have mental health and spiritual practices to be here. And then because I really do think it is a superpower, at least it's the one I've been given to stand there in the midst of things and being like, let's not forget how we feel. And so yeah, but I do think fours often make the greatest art, but it comes at a cost. And so I think there's this real conversation about health and watching when you're disintegrating. Watching envy is a big, you know, awful experience that we get caught up in. And we live in a massive culture of comparison now so that I can get triggered every day. So those are some of my experiences but Captain Planet is where it all started.

Captain Planet guys, we could rename the enneagram Captain Planet. I like that. I like that. Yes.

Let's now we can't rename it that.

But there's I bet there's a lot of copyright issues and.

I'm sure that's my reason: copyright. The one thing I want to add is that when I first started teaching, people kept coming up to me and saying, Why do you have to talk about all the negative stuff? Like why? Why do you spend eight and a half hours talking about the negative stuff of every number? And I said, Because we don't know ourselves by what we get right. We know ourselves by what we get wrong. And people in our community kept on me about that. So I offered a weekend where I would teach and know your number based on only the good stuff about each number. And we had about 55 people and not one person, not one knew their number.

Hmm.

When we left, they all just looked confused. And when I get back to because I am uncomfortable here, I get this wrong. I've always done this. I don't know how to stop. All of that is how we figure out who we are. And I think we for sure don't know our internal terrain by what we get right. We know by what we get wrong.

Hmm. Thank you for that. Thank you. Well, before we move on, does anyone want to share something that showed up for them in this conversation?

Well, I don't want to talk too much, so watch me. Don't answer me if I'm talking too much. I have a heart for and a concern for and about the conversation about the difference in familiarity with the Enneagram and the white world and the worlds that belong to people of color. And I. I think we can do better. Hmm. And I'm really glad that we're well represented, Jess. So thanks for pulling together a really great group of people. Hmm. And I am just saying, I welcome any opportunity I have to learn how to do better about crossing over into other communities. I don't know how to get invited. I don't know. You know, I'm comfortable no matter where I am. But I. I really think that if I can't teach in other communities, I can't learn how to teach to the nuance that would be a reality in other communities. Hmm. And I. I think we all would welcome opportunities, regardless of, of what direction or with whom we're exchanging places to have a greater understanding of cultural and racial difference.

Thank you for that. Well, I am sure he learned a lot and I was just so delighted to just sit back and really observe the wisdom of the Enneagram numbers all together under one roof. Like I said before, the enneagram, it's a powerful tool to not only see ourselves in a new light, but really to see each other through a new lens. And that's what we want to capture through this series. Remember, self-awareness is really about others awareness. And the more you can know yourself, the more you can show up in a way that is a gift and is a blessing and is a kind and good presence in the world. And by bringing all nine numbers together, we are going to learn. We're just going to keep learning. So next week we're bringing all this summer fun with an episode on Enneagram and Travel, which, as you'll see typically in enneagram seven fashion of course, like I was like, Doesn't everyone want to talk about travel? So to celebrate the episode, we are doing a huge giveaway y'all. The Going Scared podcast is giving way to plane tickets and a Noonday travel bundle, which is over a 1500 dollar value to enter. Go visit the link in my instead insta Jessica Honegger that is one N and two G's. Jessica Honegger until July 20th golf seriously and plane tickets and they got expensive so go get just some plane tickets. Our wonderful music for today's show is by Ellie Holcomb. And I'm Jessica Honegger. Until next time, let's take each other by the hand and keep going scared.