Myth-Busting: Myths About Nutrition with Dr. Adrian Chavez

Jessica Honegger [00:00:03] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Going Scared podcast. This is your host, Jessica Honegger, founder of the world changing brand Noonday Collection. Join me here every week for conversations that encourage you to live a life of purpose by leaving comfort and going scared. Well, we've taken a little break from the Going Scared podcast. We had an amazing Enneagram series over the summer, and I hope you've had the chance to listen to that. Before our last series on the Enneagram, we were previously in a series that was all about habits, and that series is what has inspired this next short mini series. We're calling it the myth busting series. I remember in that Habit series learning that water, it doesn't actually impact how your skin appears. And yet washing your face. It does. We learned about so many things that I thought maybe didn't matter that really do. And I think there's a lot of beliefs that we carry around that, are they actually true? I mean, does a wet head outside actually cause a cold? I don't know, guys. I grew up with my mom telling me that, but I think that actually might be a myth. So we're going to start off by myth busting ideas that we might have around nutrition. There are so many myths out there floating around on social media, on blogs. You can't have this oil. Does organic really matter? How much exercise is really effective? There's keto. There is that 30 day cleanse. There is the South Beach. And I have discovered a nutritionist named Dr. Adrian Chavez, and I have come to really appreciate his perspective. It is all science based nutrition. In fact, he previously has his degree and he has a master's in public health as well as ten years of Ph.D. experience in nutrition. He's a specialist in nutrition for weight loss, wellness and various chronic diseases. And he shares science based information to better live a healthier and happier life. His personal mission is to help people improve their well-being and prevent or reverse chronic diseases using science based nutrition and lifestyle strategies. I loved this conversation today. I just started just shooting questions at him right and left, and he was prepared with an answer. I am quite sure today that you are going to have some myths that you carry around busted. Give it a listen. Super excited to have you on the show. Dr. Adrian Chavez, welcome.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:03:08] Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jessica Honegger [00:03:10] So I don't know if you're familiar with the work of Gretchen Rubin. She talks a lot about habits, and I've had her on the show a couple of times and she divides habit people into four different categories. And one of them is a questioner. And that if you're a questioner, you're not going to do something until you have really figured it out, asked all the questions. Maybe you're a tiny bit cynical. Well, guess what? Guess what I am? I'm a questioner.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:03:39] Yes, yes. That sounds exactly like me as well.

Jessica Honegger [00:03:42] Okay. So we're going to have a great talk today. And I cannot think of a topic that makes causes more questions to arise, more myths that are out there, misinformation or things that I don't even know. I just don't even know than nutrition.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:04:00] Yeah, I agree. That's really what got me into this field in the first place was the level of complexity and the number of questions like I knew I'm just a endlessly curious person. And when I first started getting into nutrition to me because I had a master's degree in exercise science before this nutrition was like, Wow, this is so much more complicated and I'll never figure it out. So this is the direction that I want to go.

Jessica Honegger [00:04:23] Well, I know you went on also to get your degree in Masters of Public Health, and I'm curious how that has informed you today.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:04:30] Yeah, definitely. Look at nutrition from a different lens than a lot of people. I don't necessarily take just the individual approach. I definitely see things from a policy level, environmental level, like we have to look at nutrition from multiple different levels beyond just the individual choices that we have on a day to day basis. Because even those are largely influenced by factors that are outside of our control and things that we sometimes don't realize. And that can be a big factor when it comes to our choices.

Jessica Honegger [00:05:05] Well, what I love about your voice and by the way, you're an Instagram discovery. Instagram is not all bad. I it brought me you, and you're just super grounded and pragmatic. And I think with health, especially in health, has to do with so many things. It has to do with our habits. It has to do with our view of ourselves. I mean, trauma. I mean, it encompasses everything. But we make it so complicated when it's like, oh, my gosh, if we were just drinking water and moving our body and just putting whole foods in our bodies most of the time, like we would be healthy.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:05:41] Yea h, you just broke down most of my message, basically. You know, I went to school for, for a decade, and now all I talk to people about on social media, for the most part, and in podcast interviews is just exactly what you said. Like it really most of us, it really comes down to those simple things in their habits, habits that we need to just establish and get very consistent with. And almost none of us are consistent with regular sleep, you know, a good stress management practice, eating healthy, balanced meals throughout the day and not snacking, you know, between meals too much because you're skipping meals, you know, just these simple things that are they're not fancy, they're not sexy. They're not going to.

Jessica Honegger [00:06:24] Make you a whole lot of money, Adrian. They're not going to make you a whole lot of money.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:06:27] That's it. That's exactly what it is. At the end of the day, unfortunately, from my perspective and from a perspective of people, you know, in my field, if you're if you're trying to break into this field and make a bunch of money telling people to eat more fruits and vegetables isn't the way to do it, right?

Jessica Honegger [00:06:42] Totally. Which, by the way, I have to tell you two of the habits I've incorporated since following you are just taking a walk when I can after a meal, just like a and not some put on my biker shorts walk, but just kind of strolling for just a little bit.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:06:59] Yeah, yeah, it's great. I mean, any amount and any amount of movement that we get, you know, a lot of us focus a lot on exercise. And exercise is great, exercise is important. But we, a lot of us overlook the small amounts of movement that we can get throughout the day that really add up and in many cases can attribute to more calorie burn than exercise and also just more health benefits than exercise from a mental standpoint as well. Like sometimes we just need to get out and move a little bit to clear our mind.

Jessica Honegger [00:07:28] It's so true. It's so true. And I think there are days where I might get just a really hard, good workout in, but then literally sit the rest of the day. And then there are days where my job is requires a ton of activity and I'm like, I definitely got more exercise and burned more calories on those days.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:07:45] Yeah. Yeah. That's like I said, [00:07:47]that's one of the biggest things that people overlook is, you know, just getting out and going to like a theme park on the weekends and just moving all day is going to really account for more energy expenditure. But then just health benefits in general. We really need to, in my opinion, and this is one of the messages that I try to, you know, communicate through my Instagram is really just focusing more on those types of lifestyle based activities and building out a more active life versus, you know, we go to the gym for 30 minutes, but then, you know, the rest of our day is mostly sedentary. [33.1s]

Jessica Honegger [00:08:21] That's right. Okay. So we're going to break down a few myths. Myths. Number one, sugar is addictive.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:08:27] Okay. So this when you see this on social media, typically people are going to show there's a couple of different studies that they'll refer to. And one of them, they're talking about mice where they'll compare. They'll say, well, when they gave my sugar versus when they gave them cocaine, the mice wanted the sugar more. And so this is why, you know, sugar is just as addictive or worse than cocaine. When you see that, that is so misleading because clearly they're going to want the sugar more. It's what their body needs to live like. They're going to go for sugar over cocaine because sugar is fuel and their body is going to die if they stay, you know, if they just go for the cocaine. So I see that one. [00:09:05]And I also see another visual that shown very often where they show two brains and they'll say, this is your brain on cocaine and this is your brain on sugar. And they'll use that as a justification for claiming that sugar is as addictive as cocaine, when the reality is that sugar is the primary fuel source for our brain. So when we eat sugar, that's going to cause more activity in our brain. Does that mean it's addictive? No, that means it's we definitely experience a reward from eating sugar because that's biologically that's what keeps us alive. And that comparison is just it's disingenuous the way that people make that comparison, because it's a fuel source and it's causing the brain to light up because it's providing energy for the brain or it's causing more activity in the brain because it's providing energy, not because it's, quote unquote, addictive. [51.2s] And the reality is that we don't see like with the properties of what would be considered addiction, where there would be withdrawals when you stop having sugar, like we don't see these really play out the way that it does with a true addiction. And the reason that this claim bothers me specifically is because it turns eating into this really horrible thing. Like we start to associate like having a donut with our kids on Sunday morning.

Jessica Honegger [00:10:29] With I mean, a donut. I mean a banana if you've been on keto.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:10:33] Exactly. And it I.

Jessica Honegger [00:10:35] Had to get over that banana. I can eat a banana.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:10:38] But see, that's the part for me. You know, there's a little bit of truth to it because, yes, if we eat a lot of sugar, our body starts to get primed to want that reward. And we will tend to eat a little bit more and crave it more. But using the terminology of addiction is really doing more harm than good for many people because it's creating this this idea that that food is a drug and it's something that we need to be scared of. And really, at the end of the day, that's doing more harm than good from a mental health standpoint.

Jessica Honegger [00:11:11] So what is your philosophy on sugar?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:11:15] So as long as you're not overeating. So sugar is it's you know, it's very calorie dense. So if you have a tablespoon of sugar, it's going to have a lot of calories and it's not going to fill you up very much. So if you're eating a lot of sugar, like added sugar, it's going to it's going to cause you to eat more calories and probably not fill you up. So if that contributes to you overall eating more calories throughout the day, that's probably going to be an issue. If it doesn't, let's say you ate 150 grams of sugar from different sources that had added sugar. And I don't recommend this, but if you're if you did that and you're still eating within your calorie needs and you're active and you're eating whole foods for the rest of your diet, it probably has no effect. [00:11:57]Like at the end of the day, our overall dietary pattern matters, and if we're not overeating, if we're getting plenty of nutrient dense foods to fulfill our energy needs, having some extra sugar in there isn't a big deal. And for some people, especially those who are extremely active, like people who compete in triathlons and things like that, they need it. Like if they don't have that extra sugar, it's harder for them to recover. So they'll purposefully add in different types of sugar in order to help replenish their glycogen stores and things like that. So it's not harmful unless it's causing the overall diet to be lower quality, right? [37.8s]

Jessica Honegger [00:12:35] You're not eating lunch and you're grabbing a bag of Cheez-Its from the office break room, then you're going to that. It's not going to satisfy you. It's going to give you a quick little burst of energy, and then eventually you're going to need to eat again. And if you just keep grabbing Cheez-Its, you're never going to get off that cycle.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:12:54] And if you're having a lot of sugar, like you're just if you're eating a bunch of sugar and that's comprising a good portion of your diet, you're probably not getting enough protein, you're probably not getting enough fiber. You're probably not getting enough fruits and vegetables. And that's where it's an issue. But if you covered the protein, fiber, fruits and vegetables and all your needs are met and you have a little bit of sugar as a part of your diet, that's not an issue at all.

Jessica Honegger [00:13:15] Right. Right. Don't fall. Don't feel like you've fallen off the wagon when you eat an apple, people. Yeah. Or snicker bar, for that matter.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:13:22] Yeah. And so when I was speaking when I was speaking about that, I was talking more about the added sugar.

Jessica Honegger [00:13:27] When it comes to that, you're talking about like sugar, like refined sugar.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:13:30] Refined sugar, like you said, like a Snickers bar. Like if you had a Snickers bar at the end of your day and that 200 calories was within your energy needs and your overall diet was healthy and balanced. Like that's not a big deal, right? But if it's fruit, that that's actually going to be beneficial. You know, fruit sugar is going to come with fiber and micronutrients. So pretty much any fruit that you eat is going to have a positive effect on health overall. Definitely don't avoid fruit because of sugar. That is not a wise approach for sure.

Jessica Honegger [00:13:57] Okay. Well, I mean, a lot of people do. I mean, keto is got to be one of the most widely searched Google terms, I think, in the last couple of years.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:14:06] Yes. Yes, it's been going for about ten years now, unfortunately.

Jessica Honegger [00:14:10] Okay. So you're not a keto proponent. Let's talk about the myth about keto.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:14:13] Okay. [00:14:14]So I mean, the myth about keto is, the main claim is that when you reduce carbohydrates, insulin goes down and insulin is a hormone that tells your body to store fat. And so that causes you to lose more weight. But every study that's ever been done on insulin and carbohydrates and low carbohydrate diets versus high carbohydrate diets show equal weight loss as long as calories are matched. So if you're eating 1800 calories and zero carbs or 1800 calories and 90% of your diet is carbs, you're going to lose the same amount of weight either way. And that is the claim that people who promote a ketogenic diet make the claim that there's some magical weight loss benefits. And that's really not the case. [42.6s] Now, cutting out carbohydrates and going on a keto diet will cause you to avoid things like Cheez-Its and other foods that are likely not good for your health. And for many people going on, a keto diet is probably the only way or the only time they really avoided a lot of these highly processed foods. And so if you do that and you start eating more, you know, whole foods and more protein and more fiber and more, you know, just overall whole foods and less processed foods, you're probably going to experience a health benefit and you're probably going to lose weight because you took so many options off the table. You know, if you go out to eat, you have a limited number of options. [00:15:37]And any diet that creates a limited number of options is likely going to lead to weight loss. That's how every diet works. They just take away some of your options or take away the time that you can eat throughout the day and then you happen to eat less. And that's how the weight loss occurs. [15.0s] But keto itself going lower carb, there's no value to it and it causes people to remove important foods like whole grains and fruits that are going to provide nutrients and fiber that are important for overall health.

Jessica Honegger [00:16:08] Okay. So I want to talk now about supplements. Well, first of all, this is where I'm a huge questioner. Okay. And I tell you what, I had a dermatologist on the show a few months ago. I never washed my face at night and I never wore sunscreen. Well, she absolutely convinced me. I mean, she absolutely. And since then, I tell you what, I've been washing my face every night and I've been wearing sunscreen. So this is your moment. I just get overwhelmed by this whole supplement thing and I get overwhelmed by I know I have, you know, gone to my traditional doctor in the past and did kind of come up with low B12. And so I remember I did take B12 for a hot second. But what like let's talk about supplements.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:16:51] The supplement industry is probably one of the most shady businesses in the United States, to be honest. And we talk about, you know, big pharma like big supplement is worse. [00:17:00]Big supplement is worse than big pharma. Most of what's being sold on shelves is absolutely worthless, oftentimes being sold under false claims. We are we've all seen these marketing claims, you know, that this is going to reduce your bloating and this is going to, you know, have all these you know, this is going to help with weight loss. Almost none of these claims are substantiated. Now, there is good evidence for the use of a variety of different supplements in specific cases. [26.1s] Like you mentioned, if you have a B12 deficiency, taking B12 can be helpful. If you're not eating a lot of magnesium or you're not absorbing magnesium for a specific reason, taking magnesium can be helpful. And there's many different cases where, you know, a supplement may be helpful for this specific person under these specific conditions. But the way that supplements are generally marketed is they're marketed to general populations, they're marketed through influencers, podcasts, things like that. And oftentimes they're marketed under claims that are exaggerated or completely false. And then. People end up on six, seven, eight, nine supplements. And supplements are one of the leading causes of liver injury in the United States. Most supplements, over 50% of supplements bought online don't even have what they say they have in them. And there's many other issues with just randomly taking supplements. [00:18:18]My opinion with supplements is we should treat them like medications. You're not just going to go and start prescribing yourself a bunch of medication. You're going to go to your doctor and you're going to get, you know, some specific medications that might be useful for you through an expert. And that's how we should be approaching supplements. We should be very careful about it. And when we do decide to take a supplement, it should be because it was specifically recommended to us by someone who is an expert in this field, who identified that you might you need that specific supplement [33.1s] as opposed to, hey, you know, I took this, you know, I started taking this supplement and it made me feel better, you know, so everyone should take you. Yeah. And that's what you that's what you hear on podcast after podcast and on, on, you know, on social.

Jessica Honegger [00:19:06] Influencers, you're like, I want to look like you. I'm going to stop by that. Okay, so this brings me to lab work. And I recently listened to a podcast where she had gotten very specific lab work done and it came out, oh, she had all of these micronutrient deficiencies. Omegas. Oh. So she started taking omega three and six insulin and the blood work showed insulin sensitivity. And I was just like, that overwhelmed me because I just thought, okay, because I have gone to more of a traditional Western doctor. And she had told me, Yeah, everything's fine with your thyroid. But then when I started going to a more holistic doctor, she did more refined thyroid testing and was like, Actually, there's this one ratio that's off between your T three and your T four. You might want to try this at thyroid compound and I don't know, that's where I just get very overwhelmed because both doctors came to me from good sources and I liked both of them, but they both told me different things based on lab work.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:20:10] [00:20:10]Lab work is really tricky. Okay, so our conventional doctors, unfortunately, oftentimes don't run the right labs. Insurance may not cover the right labs. Sometimes there's new lab work that they may not be on top of in terms of the research. But on the other hand, functional medicine doctors and, you know, holistic health practitioners and people who brand themselves in that way often use lab work as a way to scare you into treatment. So they will run tons of labs and if you run 100 labs, something's going to be off. So that's the business model. [34.1s] I when I came into this field and I first got started online, I signed up for marketing programs to kind of learn how to build a business online. And that's what they taught me how to do. And I was like, I'm not doing this. This is not this is not okay. This is manipulative to people. You basically bring them in and you say, Hey, we have these specialized labs that your doctor can't run, and that's usually a red flag. Those labs oftentimes aren't well validated. They don't have a lot of research behind them. Things like the Dutch test, GI map, organic assist tests, hair tissue, mineral tests, food sensitivity tests, all of these different tests. There's a little bit of truth to them. But the reality is they're not based in very strong science and they're often used more for a marketing purpose of saying, hey, let's bring you in. We have these special labs that your doctor can't run, and then we run 250, you know, markers and something's going to be off. And whether or not that something's off, you as a consumer don't really know. You're not an expert in this so that the practitioner can explain it in any way that they want. And oftentimes they're doing it in very misleading ways. And I did as I mentioned, I did some marketing programs and trainings around this, and I was frankly disgusted by the way that they that this industry works. And I had no idea, you know, and I had to work in this industry. I had no idea that, you know, a lot of the these approaches were done in this way for specifically just to kind of pull clients in and get people to think something's wrong with them. If you're if you're an alternative doctor or functional medicine doctor, unfortunately, not all of them work this way, but many of them work in this fashion where they just tell you something's wrong with you and they keep telling you something's wrong with you no matter what. And that's how they keep you as a patient. Mm hmm.

Jessica Honegger [00:22:33] Well, so what do we do? Because I listened to this podcast, and it sounded very convincing, and I actually know the host, and I have followed her for a while, and she is appearing a lot more healthy in her own skin. I mean, she did say the primary thing she's done is be consistent. And I'm like, Yeah, if I was just consistent all the time, then that would probably solve all my issues. But I was curious like, is it good to go to get tested for omegas and micronutrients and insulin like what is good testing then, you know, so.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:23:07] So insulin should be done through your primary care doctor. Unfortunately, it's not most of the time, insulin should be a part of your normal annual lab work you can request. It cost like ten bucks out of pocket. That's probably the main one that I would add on to, like the standard lab work.

Jessica Honegger [00:23:25] What's the standard? Is it like triglycerides and the triglycerides?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:23:29] The glucose, those are the main ones that we have identified to be associated with chronic health issues. So when we look at like to say, for example, you did a GI mat test and they found like some bacteria that was off. We have no idea what that really means in the context of your overall health over a long period of time. [00:23:45]Now, with LDL cholesterol, glucose, triglycerides, you know, those it's called a metabolic panel and a lipid panel. Those two measures, if you get those two, those are going to give you the most information about your overall chronic disease. [14.7s]

Jessica Honegger [00:24:00] So metabolic lipid and then add insulin in there.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:24:05] Yeah. If you can add insulin to that, that's great. Now, when you mentioned Omega threes, there's a thing called an omega three index that will give you information about your omega three status. This stuff gets really complicated, and I wouldn't recommend just doing this on your own. If you're if you're concerned about that, I would recommend just working with like a qualified dietician who has experience in that specific area and has expertise in Omega three. And whatever it is that you're expecting that Omega three might be related to if it's an inflammatory condition or cardiovascular disease or, you know, I would recommend going in that direction. But in terms of like running your own labs.

Jessica Honegger [00:24:46] I mean, can you are you able to do that? I mean.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:24:48] You can you can order everything online.

Jessica Honegger [00:24:50] Really. Okay. I didn't even know that.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:24:53] I was super anti-pharma for a while when I first got into this field because I had some negative experiences and I used to order all my stuff. Like, I wouldn't go to the doctor for a while because I was like, Oh, so anti, I just had some negative experiences. But now I've kind of seen the other side because I went, you know, I went completely on the other side of like, you know, anti pharma and all the alternative stuff. So I've been there that's, you know, I'm speaking a lot of this from my own experience of going through a lot of this stuff and trying this stuff and just realizing and learning about the science. On why a lot of this is not really valid.

Jessica Honegger [00:25:26] Okay. What about like are micronutrients? Is that what B12 and D and all that is?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:25:32] Yes. [00:25:32]We cannot test those with any level of accuracy. Now, there are certain ones like magnesium we can test in red blood cells, vitamin D, for example. We can test, but the status of our micronutrients is not going to be reflected by what is found in our blood, because that doesn't tell us how much is in our tissues. And in our tissues is what matters. So blood levels are pretty tightly regulated and they don't they won't vary unless we're in extreme levels of deficiency. So testing, blood levels of micronutrients often doesn't provide any information. [37.4s]

Jessica Honegger [00:26:11] Can you get tested for micronutrient levels and through your tissue?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:26:15] So we it would be it would cost thousands to really get a micronutrient assessment. It would be incredibly complicated because we would have to because then if you look at tissue, then you in some cases like you have to combine tissue and blood and then tissue in different regions. Like how much do you have in this, you know, in muscle versus liver based on the micronutrient that you're trying to assess? It just gets way too complicated to understand our micronutrient levels. Now, like I said.

Jessica Honegger [00:26:47] So when my doctor says B12 was low, you're saying that's not accurate.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:26:51] So. B12 is one that we can easily test in the blood.

Jessica Honegger [00:26:54] Okay.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:26:55] Okay. So B12, vitamin D, magnesium, there's only a few others that we can accurately test in the blood. For the most part, though, there's a lot of companies that are selling like complete micronutrient analyzes where they they'll sell like a $500 to $700 test that claims to assess all of your micronutrients. But they're testing everything in the blood and it's not really giving a good assessment of what's going on in various tissues. And it really doesn't give an assessment of overall status. It's complicated. Like, really, every micronutrient has to be measured differently. And that's what makes it so, so complicated.

Jessica Honegger [00:27:31] Okay. Gosh. Okay. All right. Wow, this is complicated. I'm going to throw a curve ball at you. I and this is outside of nutrition, so you can just punt it if you don't want to answer this. But I've started weightlifting with electrical muscular stimulation.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:27:48] Mm hmm.

Jessica Honegger [00:27:49] Have you heard of this?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:27:50] I have.

Jessica Honegger [00:27:51] Okay. What do you think about that?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:27:54] So, again, outside of my realm, I don't think there's any data to support that. There's any additional benefit to that. But I'm not confident about that. So there actually could be any. There could be a little benefit to it. But the reality is, with this type of stuff, for most people, like, it's not something that like would say you're not going to hook yourself up to a machine for the rest of your life and stimulate your muscles while you train.

Jessica Honegger [00:28:18] So I basically get the benefit of a trainer, like I'm basically getting directed. It's like it happens to be at a place where they hook you up to a machine. But even if they didn't hook me up to the machine, I'm getting the benefit of accountability. Yeah, right.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:28:33] Definitely. So I don't know exactly what that looks like, but yeah, accountability, support, those are the things we really need. We need information and tools and skills around weightlifting, and then we need accountability and support. And anything outside of that is, you know, fancy and maybe cool and may have additional benefits. But at the end of the day, most of us really need to take on a regular weight lifting program that's going to be know, work all of our muscle groups a couple of times per week. That's going to progress over time to where we're getting stronger. And if you're doing that and you're doing that two times a week, the additional like blood flow, restricted training or controlled eccentrics or all the other complicated things that people talk about online aren't really that important. [00:29:17]Like we get so focused on, on, you know, different modalities and things like that. But at the end of the day, weight training is, is going to provide the biggest benefit. Just being consistent with weight training. Even if you're doing it wrong, you're still going to get a major benefit from it if you're consistent with it over the course of your lifetime. So the key is like, what are the tools and resources that you need in order for you to become consistent with it over the course of your lifetime? And that's where I would focus energy on is, okay, what do I need to in order to achieve that goal? [33.5s] Because doing weight training for a year or two years, it's great. But really many of the benefits of weight training are going to show up later in life when you're trying to pick up grandkids or walk up the stairs or get up off a chair. That's really or when it staves off osteoporosis and helps to maintain your physical function, when many other people are kind of losing some of that and losing muscle mass, that's when weight training is really going to have the most benefit.

Jessica Honegger [00:30:20] So I have heard that I have heard that in your forties, especially as a woman, it's more important to pick up a weight training routine than it is to just do these hard core hiit workouts. Is that a myth or is that true?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:30:34] Oh, I completely agree with that. [00:30:36]I'm not a big fan of these hiit workouts. They don't they don't adequately train your muscles or your cardiovascular system. I'm a fan of doing a couple of days a week of weight training and then a couple days a week of some type of cardiovascular exercise. And then you're actually effectively training both of those systems instead of doing this hiit training where you're doing a bunch of movement, but you're not actually training your body. Exercise is meant to train your body, not to just burn calories. And the hit movements and the hiit workouts, those are just calorie burn. Whereas training, doing, taking up a weight training routine. If you do that for a year, you're going to double your strength. You don't double your strength on a, you know, doing hiit for a year. Everyone's always doing the same weights that they were a year ago. They're just going in and burning calories every day for a year. Whereas if you're actually weight training, you're going to double your strength. You're going to see changes in your body composition. If you're actually doing like focused aerobic exercise, you're going to see, you know, your mile times go down, you're going to see your aerobic capacity improve. And you don't really see those benefits in like a hiit style workout except at the beginning. [71.1s] So if you.

Jessica Honegger [00:31:49] When you if you've gone from nothing to hiit, it's like, well, of course it's going to be epic for you.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:31:54] The first two months. And then after that it's plateaued for the rest of your life. And that's not where you want to be. Exercise is supposed to like if you can take away one thing from this part of the conversation when you exercise, it should be training your body to get better at something. And if you're not training your body in a way that you're getting better at certain things at aerobic exercise or at your strength then it's probably not going to be that effective over the long term.

Jessica Honegger [00:32:23] Wow. That is a huge takeaway. I love lifting weights, by the way. I am so excited about and I love just a good, long, hour, long focused burn like I can't get through the last rep workout. Yeah.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:32:36] Yeah. No, that's so many women who've avoided it for so long. [00:32:40]And that's really like the main piece that many women are missing is really you just need a couple of days of really heavy weight training because I see it in the gym, 80% of women who are working out typically are stopping too early, like when you said that last rep should be should be really, really difficult. If it's not, then you're probably not training yourself to improve, and that's where you'll just plateau for a while [24.1s] and.

Jessica Honegger [00:33:05] Which is where the hiit workouts don't. I mean, like I yeah, I've you've kind of now that I've gotten into serious weight training, I'm like, oh my God, the hiit workout is pointless from a weight training perspective.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:33:15] Yeah, definitely and weight training is there's a lot of women who have trouble because it's hard. I mean, it's hard going into it, like it feels uncomfortable. It's not sometimes like the, you know, lifting weights that you're burning and it's, you know, it's not normal. You're not it feels weird when you first do it. But getting past that, once you get past that, I have I've worked with many, many people. I worked with hundreds and hundreds of people. I can't tell you how many people I've seen get past that hump and been like, Oh my God, I love this. This is changing my life. Like, I will never stop doing this. And I love seeing when people get to that point. And that is a high percentage of people. When you have the right support and you get some knowledge and you just feel comfortable in the gym, it makes a big difference.

Jessica Honegger [00:33:58] Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. Okay. I want to end at talking about I noticed that you what I think you call calories energy. So I, I'm like, what? How do you kind of calculate that energy range that your body needs, especially if you're a bit overweight and maybe you're trying to lose a little bit of weight and then macro nutrients. Okay, there is so much out there about and I'm just like that overwhelms me as well.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:34:27] Yeah, definitely. [00:34:28]So, yes, I do use the term energy for calories because that's what it is. You know, calorie is a unit of energy and we all look at calories as like some bad thing. And the reason I like to use the word energy is because terminology matters. And if you're not eating your calories, you're not eating energy for the day and you're not fueling yourself. So I want people to take a different approach from a mental standpoint to, you know, your food you're supposed to be eating, you're supposed to be giving your body energy. You just got to give it the right amount. [26.2s] And on that, like you mentioned, how to calculate that, there's a website called NIH Body Weight Planner, and there's many other tools out there. But this is just one of the ones that I like to use. And on that website, if you type in your information, you type in your goals, you type in your and I have a tutorial on this, on my Instagram on exactly how to do this. But if you type in all of your information, it'll spit out your calorie needs. And I highly recommend that everyone understands their energy needs, even if you're, you know, in a healthy weight or you're not trying to gain or lose weight. It's just good information to understand.

Jessica Honegger [00:35:33] You think, and it does like the whole basic, like, here's how much you weigh. Here's my because I have a very high muscle mass for a woman especially. I mean, I am very like, you should see my calves. Like, they're not messing around. Okay. So and of course, I've had to go through a lot of my own body image issues because I don't fit the standard idea of what beauty is according to American culture. And so I even remember weighing in, like at a doctor's office, like probably in middle school, because those are the stickiest memories. And I remember the nurse looking at me just going, Whoa, where do you store all that weight? Mm hmm. So then I get hesitant when I'm getting on one of these calculator things because I'm like, Is it calculating my muscle?

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:36:18] So it's going to calculate your energy needs based on your overall body composition or and it's not going to be 100% accurate. These are based on equations. These are based on averages. But for you, like, if you if you have a higher body weight, you have higher energy needs, it's that simple. And so what a lot of people find and this is the reason that I say I think everyone should do it because a lot of people find that they're supposed to be eating a lot more than they think.

Jessica Honegger [00:36:42] I mean, I used to eat 1200 calories.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:36:44] Yeah. I can't tell you how many women I've spoken to. That's like you're just supposed to be eating so much more than you think. And especially within meals. Like I can't tell you, like most people when they're trying to, quote unquote, eat healthy, you know, the meals are so small, they're eating like 400 calorie meals. Like, how are you going to fill yourself up? You're not going to eat.

Jessica Honegger [00:37:04] Especially for weight training and getting your exercise in. It's like you're hangry a lot.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:37:09] Exactly. Let's say you're an average size. Say you're five, you know, 140 ish woman like your energy needs are probably 1750 ish right there just to maintain or eat.

Jessica Honegger [00:37:20] That scares a lot of women right now.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:37:22] Yeah, that would actually 1750 would probably actually lead to weight loss if you're active. And so it would probably be closer to like 22 for maintenance, 2200.

Jessica Honegger [00:37:30] Do you have clients? I have a hard I am now. I am becoming a questioner. Yes. Because that is hard for me to swallow.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:37:40] Yeah. I mean, this is what I do all the time. Like I can't tell you how many.

Jessica Honegger [00:37:45] You literally have women eating like let's say 1800 calories. They're weightlifting and they're exercising and they're getting to like their sort of healthy weight zone.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:37:55] Oh, yeah. 1800s of low on the low end. I mean, 1500 might be someone that's like five foot one five ish. If you're like five, six, five, seven, five, eight, you probably even need to be higher than that. You know, height's a big factor, muscle mass. You know, the amount of activity that you get throughout the day through your work and through your exercise as well. But most women should not ever be going under 1500. I mean, you can for a short period of time if you're trying to get to a plateau or something like that. But the problem is that most people and I see this all the time is like they're trying they have the best intentions. They're trying to eat 1200 or 1400 every day. And then they have this one day that's 28, because they're under eating every day and they're starving all the time. And that's where that's why people think they need less than they do, is because when they're tracking, they're under eating. But then when they're not tracking on the weekends or at night.

Jessica Honegger [00:38:44] Right, when they're.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:38:45] Starving and they're like, you're just starving because you're only 1200 calories that day. So you eat 1800 a night, you know, in one sitting. And you just forget about that the next day and tell yourself that you're not losing at 1200. You know, the reality is that usually when someone's thinks that they're eating 12 and not losing, it's because you're starving all the time and you're bingeing and you're probably not paying attention to those binges and how much calories you're getting from that. [00:39:09]And when you eat meals and you feed yourself appropriately, you're not starving all the time. You don't have any desire to snack or binge or do any of that. And so you can stay at that actual calorie level and you oftentimes average less for many people. [16.6s]

Jessica Honegger [00:39:26] And they can remain consistent because you're exactly yourself. Listen, I had my functional medicine doctor who. I'm actually in the I mean, I've been with her for years and she just said, yeah, just coming in in your forties, if you want to lose weight, you're going to have to eat about 1200 calories a day. That's just how it works in your forties. And that's when I was like, I think I probably need to start looking for someone else.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:39:49] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the functional medicine doctor doesn't get any nutrition training at all.

Jessica Honegger [00:39:53] Yeah, you're right. That's probably the missing piece there.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:39:56] Yeah, they get they get a weekend seminar on each system beyond what it me does like it. [00:40:02]They have they have very little training. Most people don't realize it's like a functional medicine doctor has six weekends of training beyond an MD and each weekend is like a GI lesson where they just teach them protocols on how to how to fix GI issues. And those protocols are often, you know, they're very generic and they don't work all the time. Most of my clients come from functional medicine doctors, like most of them, like I say, probably like 60 to 70% used to. We're working with like a functional medicine doctor and realize that they weren't moving in the right direction with their health, you know, with that. [29.5s] But yeah, 1200. I mean, how tall are you?

Jessica Honegger [00:40:34] I'm 55.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:40:35] Yeah, I mean, 1200 if you know.

Jessica Honegger [00:40:38] I mean, I used to be able to do that when I was I had a dieting problem. And trust me, I mean, I've gone through so much inner healing. I mean, lots of inner healing. I did my first diet when I was, you know, second grade Weight Watchers, like I said. Yeah, I've got. Maybe we should work together.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:40:54] Yeah. Wow. That's a I have a lot.

Jessica Honegger [00:40:57] I have a long history. And I even write I wrote a book, An Imperfect Courage. And I, I even write about, you know, just my own story of having a healthy relationship with food and my body. But I find that you're constantly having to develop a new relationship with food and body as you age, you know, and as you go through even different phases and different seasons. So I feel like I'm going through one of those times right now where I'm like, Wow, you know, what I needed in my thirties doesn't feel like it's what I need in my forties. And then it just kind of, it just depressed me. It made me feel kind of like what's, you know, almost ambivalent. We were like, Well, then how do I even try to be healthy if that's what it's going to take to get off some of the extra weight that I do have on right now, I think is a perimenopause. I think because I stress ate this last year because it was a stressful year. Yeah. So, you know, it's just it's all the things.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:41:50] That so the I mean, there's very real truth to the fact that being in perimenopause can definitely affect hormones and can definitely affect body fat distribution, can affect energy levels, can affect movement. You know, it can it can definitely make it harder to lose weight to where, yeah, you probably would have to go a little bit lower in calories if you wanted to lose weight. [00:42:10]But the reality is that sometimes and a lot of people don't like to hear this, but sometimes there are phases where, you know, you just it's just not the right time for you to be losing weight and focusing on, you know, the other aspects of your health that you can control at that period in time is a better place to focus your energy. And oftentimes when people do that and you forget about weight loss and you start thinking about it, then some of that body fat starts to come off. [27.3s]

Jessica Honegger [00:42:38] I think that's one of the best thing I've done, is just like I hardly ever weigh myself, you know? And then when I do, it's just like a little data point, like, okay, this is one data point. But yeah, we're just focusing on what do I have control over? I control I have control over how much I can move my body. I have control over eating whole foods, which when I'm eating and then I have a lot of control over my. My mindset, and that is learning how to consciously tune in before I eat food, check in with myself in my emotional eating right now. Or is this actually true hunger? You know, what are some other calming things I can do to call my nervous system when I know I'm going to the crunchy chips? Because I just want chips right now, you know? And, you know, maybe I can start eating jicama or maybe I can go on a walk and yeah, it's just or it's a lot of effort to be a healthy human.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:43:28] Definitely. Or sometimes just eat the chips.

Jessica Honegger [00:43:30] You know? You're right.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:43:31] You're right and you're right. [00:43:33]It does take a lot of effort, I believe, at first, until you get into a really good groove of things. Like I mean, it does take effort. Like you, of course, like with anything, if you want to be successful in life with anything, it's going to take effort. But the effort should go down over time like it should be. You should get into more of a routine over time and there are going to be transitions in your life like you're mentioning, where, you know, maybe effort has to go up because you're trying to get into a new routine for various reasons. But one of the things that I talk about as well on my social media is that if you're getting quality information about nutrition, things should feel easier for you. You should gain clarity over time, and you should become much easier for you. And it should take up less of your mental headspace over time. And if that's not the case, then your information is probably not high quality and it's probably just meant to distract you because a lot of yeah, a lot of the information online is meant to. [59.2s] I mean, we need listeners, you know, if you're trying to run a business, you need listeners. So you have to, you know, keep coming up with new stuff to keep people interested in your content. And unfortunately, in the nutrition space, that means, you know, talking about this, the new fad and the next best thing, instead of focusing on what really matters. And you should if you're not gaining clarity with your nutrition over time and you're not just feeling more comfortable about what you're doing, I recommend examining the sources that you're getting your information from and really making sure that, you know, you're getting quality information that's helping you really learn about your body and what it needs. Mm.

Jessica Honegger [00:45:13] So good. It's just, it is simple. I do a lot of work around the world. I work with vulnerable populations of people in many parts of the developing world. And whenever I'm there, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, the energy we spend on the garbage that we do in America, when in many of these other places it's just like, Oh my gosh, you know, they're just trying to get by, you know, and trying to figure out how to grow their food and get the right nutrients and.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:45:42] First world problems.

Jessica Honegger [00:45:44] First world problems.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:45:45] We create these first world problems when it comes to nutrition. Yeah, we need to move away from that and you know, just really pay more attention to ourselves and what we feel good eating and you know, it doesn't have to be that complicated. It really isn't.

Jessica Honegger [00:46:03] Right? Oh, my gosh. This was so good. It was so good that we went way over time. And I don't care because this is such an area that needs to be de-mythed for so many people. So thank you so much. Tell us how we can come and get good health information.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:46:18] So the place that I'm most active is on Instagram at Dr. Adrian Chavez. So that's Dr. Adrian Chavez. I also have a podcast called the Nutrition Science Podcast. I truthfully haven't published in a while on it, but I've been getting interviewed on podcasts recently and it's scratched my itch of wanting to get back into the podcasting world. So I will definitely be back on that very soon. And that'll be another really, really good resource where you can go a little bit more in-depth. But Instagram is where you can kind of find how to work with me and all the different resources from there. So highly recommend, check me out there.

Jessica Honegger [00:46:57] Well, thank you so much.

Dr. Adrian Chavez [00:46:59] Yeah, thank you for having me.

Jessica Honegger [00:47:08] Music for today's show is by my good friend Ellie Holcomb. And I'm Jessica Honegger. Until next time, let's take each other by the hand and keep going scared.