Collaboration over Competition: Noonday Collection and Sseko Designs Merger with Jessica Honegger and Liz Bohannon

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Going Scared podcast. This is your host, Jessica Honegger, founder of the social impact fashion brand Noonday Collection. And you can join us here every week for conversations on living lives of purpose by leaving comforts and going scared. Well, today is a very, very, very special episode. It's a standalone episode. As you know, we are in between seasons. Our last season was all about the Enneagram, our special summer launch. I hope that you've had a chance to go listen to that as a three part series where we sit down with nine different Enneagram types at one table. And it was a fascinating conversation, so I encourage you to go check that out. We're going to be launching our new season in September. But until then, Noonday has had some really, really big news. I hope you've seen it. If you haven't yet, let me just give you the 101. Sseko Designs and the founder of Sseko Designs, Liz Bohannon, have emerged under the global brand of Noonday Collection as one global family. Sseko Designs' mission has always and will always be that every single girl deserves to learn and to lead. Liz Bohannan has been a long time friend of mine and we have kept in touch as entrepreneurs, as working moms over the last decade. And it became clear just a few months ago. I reached out to Liz and said, What's going on? Maybe it's time for us to learn how we might collaborate. We really didn't exactly know how it would go, but as time went on, it became clear that the best decision to support all of our artists and partners in our mission was to merge under New Day collection. And so the last few months have been super exhilarating. They reminded me of startup days, so much decision making, and we have now launched our collection that thankfully now includes an incredible wardrobe collection, bags, accessories, home goods. We are now a one stop ethical shop for anything that you would want for yourself or anyone else in your life. Some of my favorites so far in our new collection are The Magic Pants. You've got to go check them out. They're the kind of pants that can sit in your closet for years to come because they magically fit me at least pre vacation and post vacation where and when I tend to, you know, drink too many margaritas and gain a little bit of weight, they do not wrinkle and they also are super comfortable even in the Texas heat. So that is one of my favorites. Some of my other favorites are these gorgeous ceramic earrings. And right now is the time to go pull up the Noonday Collection.com site and check it all out. So Liz and I are both having each other on our shows right now and her show is called Plucking Up. It's an incredible podcast that I have listened to for a long time now, and you can go check out her podcast. It is called Plucking Up. Her book is called Beginners Pluck. Liz is a Forbes top 20 speaker. She's the founder of Seiko Designs, and now she is the Chief Growth Officer of Noonday Collection, as well as Travis and I's new business partner as we build a big, big table that we want you to be sitting at. Here's Liz. Welcome, Liz.

Welcome, Jessica.

So, actually, Liz, I'm just remembering this is not your first time where we're hosting this on both of our podcasts, but you've actually been on Going Scared before.

I have. Many years ago, I think we were both speaking at the Fair Trade Federation conference, and it happened to be in Austin. And so we got together and we hung out. We did your podcast. I also remember we went to the after party together. Yeah. Over to your house? Oh, yes. Yeah. It wasn't many years ago. What, like three or four years ago?

Probably three or four years ago. I remember hanging out thinking, I love this person so much.

Oh, that's sweet. I think I remember similarly.

And that's what makes this so great and why people keep saying like, is this working? Is this working? And I'm like, I love working with Liz. And I was just telling and I told you this the other day, I said, it's really cool. So 12 I'm 12 years and you're 12 years in 13 years and yeah to having started a business and let's just talk about the growth. Let's talk about the leadership growth that has to happen with still be doing something to still be doing something in the world.

I mean Jessica, I don't know if I know anybody. I might be exaggerating right now. I'm not sure off the top of my head I could think of someone that I know that is 13 years in to doing something that they started 13 years ago. Yeah. Like, you know, there's the Mile High Club. You're like, we're in the 13 the 12 High Club. The 12 club. The 12. Yeah. But like even a decade, honestly, a decade, I think I know people who maybe have had the same job for a decade, but I don't know anybody who founded a company who ten years in and still running that company. Do you?

Still going strong? I mean, I'm sure I could think of them, but they're probably like well-known. You know, I'm like Tom's. I mean, Blake is still going at it, you know, Kendra Scott, she's still going at it. But I mean, if we're talking more of per privately held companies.

Privately held, yeah, yeah.

Nothing. Nothing's coming to mind. And I want to know this is what I want to know. When you think back to who you were then as a leader and who you are now, what have been some of the big turning points for you where you were like, I need to change because how I'm being experienced is impacting others and I need to grow in this way and I need to change in this way in order to evolve into a better leader. I'm super curious.

I'm well, I've been pretty great since the beginning, so that's.

Perfect in every way.

Your podcast is called Going Scared. Mine's called Plucking Perfect. Oh, my gosh. There's been so many things. You know, I would say probably three-ish years in one, and I mean, I'm just trying to go back into the archives, but I would say one of my earliest leadership revelations was kind of around understanding the difference between the what, the why, and the how.

Hmm.

And realizing some a very I'm sure you've experienced this in me even 13 years in. I really love feedback.

On the show guys, only an Enneagram eight would do that. So you're like, give me the feedback. What's the feedback? Thanks for the feedback. And I'm a seven and I'm like, I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Okay, yeah. Go for it. Tell me.

You know, I well, I have very strong opinions on things. I typically just naturally have a perspective and a point of view. And I hold I can hold to things naturally, really tightly. I'm just like, No, I think this is why we have to do this. This is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to do it. And I, I mean, honestly, it kind of boils down to realizing that as a leader, you need to choose your battles. Like if you consider everything important to do in the way that you think it should be done, you're going to lose effectiveness as a leader. People will stop listening to you. They will stop believing you when you say, no, no, no, no. Like, you know, I have a, I have a friend. She's one of my best friends. I'm going to make fun of her on this show publicly because I've done this to her in person, but she got married and oh, my gosh, it was such a fun wedding. She did an incredible job. It was very orchestrated. All of these like amazingly fun, interesting things. But she considered herself a very low key bride. And this was the opposite of a low key wedding. Like just literally nothing about it was low key in the slightest. And every time she brought a new idea to us of like, okay, now you have to go get a pair of these very specific white high top shoes so that in the reception at this very specific moment, we can pick up our very expensive, specific dresses that we got that matched our very specific floral headpieces that we were wearing. But every time she brought a new idea, she'd be like, No, no, I'm like, super low key. This is the one thing that I actually care about. You're right. You're like, Okay, you've said that 13 times now. You've lost credibility. You're not a low key bride, and that's fine, but let's call it what it is. The point being, if as a leader, everything in your way and your perspective on every single item is so important. You're going to lose credibility and you're going to lose effectiveness and you're going to build an organization that actually isn't innovative, creative. It's not going to evolve because it's only going to be your perspective that you have to welcome other ideas in. You have to stay super curious. But I struggled in the beginning to know what those things were like, where because I don't want to just be like willy nilly and take everybody's ideas and like we have to focus and we have to like have a unique value proposition. And so for me, kind of asking, is this a why, a what, or a how? Was really, really super helpful in realizing that holding on to the why and being pretty militant about our mission, our vision, our unique proposition was actually my responsibility as a leader to know what that was and to hold on to that. But then to recognize that the how's and the what's actually I needed to be more open handed with and that that was okay to let other people into those things, to stay super curious, to take other people's leads or perspectives, etc.

I love that. It's interesting in the story that you just gave. I would say for me it's similar to the bride where she had one perception of herself and how she was being perceived. But it was very different. On how she was occurring for other people.

Mm hmm.

And that my I mean, obviously, there's been so many along the way, including very many just in the last couple of months. Let's just say that if either you and I write another book, let's just say we know that we're in the middle of book material right now. We are, man. We are. Every now and then, my agent reaches out. He's like, So when's that second book coming? And I'm like, It's being written. It's like, my life is being lived, but it's being written. But that has been so much of me is I can actually super relate to that bride where I feel like I am this, you know, very encouraging, create space for people to be creative. And I want to know your dreams and I want to see you fly. But actually, when I've gotten feedback from the team, something I have to be careful about is that I can be perceived as hyper rigid and critical.

Hmm.

So when I'm coming from that place of stress, I'm like a little bit like that bride where it's like, at 10:00, you know, it's going to be this and it. But inside it's like I'm having more of this creative vision, but then I can get very rigid about that vision and then realize that I'm actually not posturing myself in a way that is creating space for people to just add to the pool of common meaning, like no just bring... And in fact, today we're doing our buy that you have been a part of to purchase our spring jewelry collection. We've we're doing wardrobe and bags, accessories, all of those things on kind of another calendar. But today is the jewelry buy and I, you know, I've been like, I'm dating on it. You and I did it. We took it to the gram, we got the pulls. And I put together the collection this morning and then I'm presenting to the team. But the team then goes back and looks at cost and artists and allocation and carryover and inventory levels and all this other stuff. So I had to be careful to not be like, and here's the decision. Like, this is what I've decided and this is what it's going to be. Instead, it was like, Here is a selection. Here's my perspective on that. I know that there's so much that goes into decision making around this process, and I cannot wait to hear your ideation and your ideas at the end of the day, because now they're kind of in there, you know, figuring all this out and I'm realizing I have to be open handed to, okay, that's not going to make it because it just doesn't make sense for this line or whatever. So it's just it's interesting. How do you think you are perceived as opposed to how you like when has there been a disconnect when you're like, I'm occurring to you for like that? I know there was something recently where I was like, You get your idioms wrong just like me. And you're like, That is not no, don't put that on me, Jess. That's on you. It's so true.

I was like maybe every once in a while, but I actually feel pretty confident in my idiom use. What would be I mean maybe. Honestly just I feel like. At dinner the other night I don't perceive myself to be super controlling or type-A. I my perception of myself is that if I care about something, I care about it super, super, super deeply. And then I am very impassioned about it, like what I just said. However, I perceive myself to be someone who like considers eight out of ten things that come up in like normal everyday life. I actually feel super flexible and open with. There's a misconception about 8's that we are controlling. What's actually more true is that we don't want to be controlled. So it's like when we sense that someone else is trying to control us, that's like super triggering. And so that's how I identify of like when I the two out of ten things, I'm like, this is a hill I will die on. And then the eight. But eight out of ten things I'm like pretty loosey goosey go with the flow and but I said that at dinner and you kind of reacted a little bit like, that's not how I perceive you to be.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you know what I think it is because you said, you know, there's like two out of ten, but we've been probably dealing with 50 decisions in a day that all feel big. And so it's probably been, you know, instead it's been like, okay, there's, you know, ten out of 40 decisions. And maybe those have felt big to me.

They've been like mis proportioned of the actual really important things. Maybe we haven't experienced each other as much in the day to day where it's like, Okay, yeah, I'm super open to that. Like, I feel like it's pretty easy for me if I think someone is better at something than me or more of an expert, or is thought about something longer or harder unless it's one of those two out of ten, I generally feel it's quite easy for me to go like defaulting to you in that like trust your instinct, run with it.

I do that too. I feel like that's why we work really well together. I mean, considering we jumped into the deep end shotgun wedding for sure. But you know, when I do think about how we've jumped into the deep end together and have been in so many high stakes conversations and also, you know what I the feedback I've gotten in the past is like it's very similar to you. It's like there's so many things I'm flexible about, but then you get into my sandbox and I'm like, That is my toy. I'm like the three year old, you know, that's my toy. And obviously I've had a business partner for 12 years who was also Enneagram eight, so we've had to work through a lot of those dynamics. And what I was telling a friend the other day is like, this is it's so refreshing and great to have a new business partner and really a new friend also that I'm getting to meet during this phase of my life where I've done so much work. Yeah, you know, where I really can't, where clarity is kindness. And you know, we got into this intense what felt intense to me, whatever feels and tends to me probably feels less intense to you just because of your eight-ness. But it was you, me and our Marketing manager Becca was in the car and we were having this intense discussion about how to actually publicly say the merger, you know, and like what day it should be on and whose email and all of that. And it was it was a very sharp and direct conversation. And in the past that would have felt I probably would have lost sleep over it that night. And instead, it was like, you're being clear. I'm being clear. We're both getting to the bottom of it to the end. And then we got to the end and felt really great. And like, I really didn't think about it after that, except that I did circle back to Becca and go, Are you okay? Because that was kind of intense. Mm hmm. Did that feel intense to you?

It did, yeah. That actually did feel intense to me. I was feeling, I think, in that specific conversation, was feeling a little bit misunderstood, I think. And then I feel like I said that. And I spoke up very directly with the way in which I wasn't feeling heard because it wasn't it wasn't actually just like a super logistical conversation. It was touching into kind of some more, I think, emotional things. But I felt like I was able to really directly say that to you of like, I'm not feeling heard, I'm not feeling understood, I need to share. And I feel like you really received that and heard me and I felt really great about it. And then I feel like we were able to kind of get back on the same page, solve the logistical issue. Because here's the thing logistics never get spicy unless there's something a little bit under. Right. Like if it's actually about the date, an email goes out really hard for that to get spicy. Usually my experience is I should not say never because we don't say those words. But my experience is typically it's like, oh, there's something probably one layer under there. And in that conversation there was where I was like feeling pretty unheard, but I felt like I was able to say that really directly, that you responded and heard and that we were able to get back on the same page and then go have a great dinner together. And I really value like fast repair is super trust building for me.

It is. I mean can we just talk about repair time for marriages? I mean, it used to be Joe and I in those early years, it would take like five days.

Yes.

Yeah. And now it used to take us five days can take us 5 minutes.

Isn't that beautiful?

It is. I love that. But it takes the effort. It just takes a lot of effort to get to that place. And I think that's what makes this so healthy between you and me, is that we have had to do so much work in our marriages, in our leadership, in our parenting. And because we've done the work, I'm just going to brag on us. We've done the work like this stuff doesn't. There's highly dysfunctional leaders that exist because they aren't doing the work. They aren't becoming self aware, going to therapy, going through the coaching programs, reading the books, listening to Brené Brown's Daring Greatly. Come on, just listen to that and apply it. And you're going to be a good leader.

Being in friendship, Jess, I think one of the things that served us both so well is we both are so wildly committed to very authentic, committed female friendships outside that is were accurate. So we have both for literal decades now have cultivated relationships where we are. We ask for feedback, we hear feedback, we have to receive that feedback. We move forward, we repair, we reconcile, we show up better, stronger, more intimate and more connected. And that, I deeply believe, has prepared me even for this specific relationship. Jess I, I mean, even we've had people say this, it's just like there's no way this is going to work. Like because our, it's not just to camp in any merger is tough. Our industry, like our companies are very driven by us as individuals, by our personalities, by our culture. And so to merge those two communities together, I mean, for the most part, the responses that I've gotten has been like, woohoo! That's going to be interesting. Like two big personalities trying to share the stage. And it's really reminiscent to me of like I lived with six girls in college and so often I feel like people would hear that and be like, Oh my gosh, six women in one house. And it would always make me so angry because I was like, Yeah, six women in one house. It's plucking awesome. Yeah. Like, these are the best years of my life. And we were very much so, even in college it was like Monday night family meetings where we sat around in a circle and we shared our hearts and where we were at and what we were struggling with. And it was our safe time and space to provide feedback from one another. Just like on a weekly basis, we are going to come expecting that we've hurt one another expecting that we're missing the mark, expecting that we're disappointing each other and there's a safe place for us to raise our hand and go, gosh, you know, when you whatever roommate thing, you know, threw my eggs away like, you know, whatever it was or like you're.

Oh, my roommates call me out because I never bought junk food, but then I would like sneak return for my weird, stupid dieting past, you know? And so every now and then I stop saying to this, to this day, saying it out loud, I would like go to sneak a Cheeto. And there would be like a Post-it note that was like, no, please. And I don't know if they said my name, but we all know, like, please do not wait. You know what's so funny?

That's me at every restaurant ever. I'm like, No, I don't need the large fry. And then Ben orders it, and then I eat 75% of it. Yeah, yeah. But true. I mean, honestly, those things might sound silly, but it's just a muscle like it is a muscle of showing up, of expecting you're not perfect, of knowing that in love, because there's a huge difference for sure between getting feedback that just feels critical and getting feedback when like for instance, this just happened in my marriage yesterday, I got some feedback and it felt really hard to me because I'm feeling like my partner has a story about me that they actually want to be true. And so then the feedback kind of feels like I have this bias against you, and so I'm going to you're going to do something. And then I'm like reading it through this bias and I'm just discouraged or I'm just like, Man, I'm trying so hard and I feel like you actually don't want this to get better. So you're looking not for the wins it feels like you're looking for when I'm failing. And that's just really discouraging and hard. And so I say all of that to say like feedback's still super hard for me to get in certain, you know, if I feel like it's like I just can't win or.

Something you've been working on or yeah. You know what, my marriage therapist or he's my therapist, but he told me something so accurate. And I have to say it's also true for business too. He said the issues that come up in the first few months of your marriage are going to be the same thing that you are working on 30 and 40 years later.

Yeah. Sounds about right.

You know, and I can absolutely say that. I mean, Travis and I just had some stuff come up last week, and this stuff is like it hadn't come up in a while because we hadn't been under just like an extreme stress like the merger. And I have to say, I was like, this is like I was like reflecting on it to Joe, my husband, and he's like, oh, yeah. That's like exactly what y'all even went to executive coaching for to begin with five years ago, you know? Yeah. And it was like, yeah, we've been around. It's interesting the things that come up during stress. And I think that's what's so important too, to, to kind of identify when everyone's in a place of stress and to be able to own what's going on in your own life. And, you know, because that tends to be what brings turns the heat up. And when the heat's turned up, we go back to our old patterns of totally.

Which is so important to remember that that isn't so a lie that I have believed and still believe to this day. And I intellectually don't believe it anymore. But my body can't let go of this truth is that people's true self comes out when they're stressed, angry, or afraid. So I am and I've shared this with you definitely. And probably a lot of people as a show know this. But I am married to someone. We both just run super hot. We're very committed. Like we are not passive, so nothing gets thought without being said. And that's kind of in some ways amazing and beautiful because we talk about everything and we communicate and you always know kind of not always, but you often you usually know where we're at and what we're getting. The hard part about that is there's a lot that comes out of your mouth, and my belief from my partner is like, oh, in the in his moments of anger when he does say sometimes some really hurtful things, my narrative that I believe is like that's your true belief about me. And it just came out in this moment. And, you know, the 99 other things that you've said to me over the last month in kindness, when you weren't stressed out, when you weren't angry, when you weren't afraid, that was all kind of lip service. And this one thing that you said to me when you were triggered, that's it. That's your true belief about me. And then I'm devastated because I'm like, my partner thinks this kind of horrible thing about me, and.

Then it causes you to look back on your whole past month and recover at all. Like all those times I thought were great. Actually, you were resenting me totally.

And what our therapist has been great about reminding me of is she's like, Oh, Liz. Ben's like, When he's flooded or when you're flooded, anybody...It's not just Ben. It's all humans. When you're flooded with anger or fear, you're that part of your brain that is actually the highest functioning part of your brain completely shuts off and you are operating out of your lowest, least true, least intellectually sound place in those moments. And so it's totally flipped that it's like, no.

My coach calls it an amygdala fight, my executive coach. Yeah. She's like, oh, you and your partner, just your amygdalas just had a fight together.

Oh, I love that. I want to like little I want like little figurines that are just both of our amygdala open while she calls it the reptile brain.

Lizard brain.

Yeah, yeah.

Little lizard. Your lizards are having a fight and you're not even going to remember what you. I often can't even remember when my amygdala is having a fight. I can't even remember exactly what I said because it's my reptile brain.

I don't even know if you know this yet, Jess, but this will probably come up now in our merged communities. I call it my gecko. So you'll hear you'll even hear ambassadors, former Saco fellows, talk about my gecko said this, my gecko is doing that. And that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about my lizard brain in a moment of fear, frustration, anger, rejection. This is what my gecko is telling me or this is what my gecko is saying. And, and that's where that comes from, is kind of like the lizard brain. And so for me it's really been have in the moment I have to reframe and go like that's not his truest truth, but that's hard. That's been a hard thing for me to rewire because I think as a culture and a society we do. It's like, oh, in a moment of, you know, in a moment of anger, that real truth came out. And it's like actually from a psychological, physiological perspective, that's actually not true. That's not when the most truth happens and emerges. But it takes a lot of work for me. Even still, today I've known that piece of science for however many years, and like I said, my head can believe it, but my body still kind of holds on to that. And I think that's what you really believe about me in that is can be really sad and hard. But all that being said, I really do feel like to circle back, maybe I miss attributing this, but I really do think because we have both really pursued those types of relationships outside of business, specifically with other strong women that I think we just it's I believe it has served us so well and it feels like such a gift to me to show up and like I want to go out to every single one of your friends, Jess, and be like, who have loved you, who have challenged you, who've walked alongside of you, who have been committed, who have held your hard things, who have celebrated your joys with you. And I almost want to be like, thank you. Thank you for setting the stage. You inadvertently served me so well. And now I'm stepping into this relationship that could take like 30 seconds to go up in flames honestly, with all of the risk profiles that we have merging these communities and big personalities and egos and fear and all of that stuff like and be like, Oh, there's so much work that's been done here that now we both get to benefit from as well.

Thank you for saying that at my you know, I talk about my therapist a lot on the show. I've had him on the show. He we did a whole series around fear and anxiety back in December of 21. He's an interpersonal neurobiologist, so all of his work is really around how we are not just individuals and the world. We are only like the sum of the people in our lives. And when I first met him a few years ago at a conference and I was in a bad place with one of my kids who would go into flight fright, flight or freeze, and he would go into freeze. And freeze for me is very triggering because I feel abandoned. Yep. And I was not responding well. And I was like, not the adult in the relationship. And I think the kid at the time was like seven years old, you know? So it's like somebody needs to grow up and it's not going to be my seven year old. So what are we going to do here? And so I just I remember just like telling him, like, oh, my God, this happened. And this is how I how I reacted to my poor kid. And he just said, wow, it sounds like God brought him into your life to heal you because deep calls to deep and it's cool to think about you and I and it's like God brought you into my life. There's going to be stuff that emerges now because of partnering with you that God is like, I want to bring that to wholeness. I want to evolve that piece of you so that you can even show up more whole and loving in the world. And it's just, I don't know. It's just really cool. That's really cool. Okay, so what are some things that, you know, as we look into our future now that this is out there? You know, it's been about a week. I'll tell you what I'm excited about is we are selling some amazing items and they are selling like hotcakes. So getting sales numbers in now that we are together and just like, oh, this is good. This is so good. I mean, everyone on my podcast knows because I'm so transparent. I'm overly transparent. You know, that we have been on the low part of the S-curve at noon day for the last couple of years. And it's like, Oh, my God, this is not fun to run a business when it's declining. And I'm like, Oh my God, we're not declining anymore. We're actually going up again. So that feels really good.

I'll never forget, Jess, the day you walked in. So it was the first day that Sseko fellows could sign up or kind of open up their businesses in in the new day back office. And not to get too technical, but it was kind of like day one where that was even a possibility, where the Great Migration, if you will, was actually taking place. And we were at the Austin offices and I was in the design or in the marketing room working on something. And you walked in and you had the numbers of how many Sseko fellows had had migrated, and you just started crying. And we like had this really sweet hug. You also picked me up, I remember that. But it was just like such a sweet moment, I think, for both of us, because, you know, we're both we can, we are we know what we believe in a lot of ways. And we have these strong perspectives and strong voices. And so I do think that sometimes people can perceive, at least me, and I would imagine it's the same as you of just like and I've had people say this to me before, I'm just like, you're just so fearless. That we're just like How are you so fearless? And whenever somebody says that to me, I'm just shocked because I'm just like, Oh no, I'm mainly scared all of the time. Like, I am mainly walking around terrified most of the time. And have I gotten to a point where I refuse to let my fear take the driver's seat? Yeah, actually, the vast majority of the time, because I've built up the experience and the muscle memory to trust and believe that just because I'm afraid doesn't mean I'm doing something wrong. It means I'm doing something unknown. And but I think for both of us, probably there was a lot of fear going into this. Like when people say, hey, there's an 85% chance this isn't going to work. You would almost have to be a sociopath to not be afraid of it. Right? Like these two things that we have both poured our life and heart and soul and mind and energy into, to say I'm deeply believing that actually the best is yet to come, but it's on the other side of a huge risk of this all falling apart is terrifying. And so I think, like for both of us in that moment, to kind of have this sense of like celebration, relief, excitement of just like, oh, everything that we very confidently hoped for and worked towards and had intellectual reason to believe was going to work but we're still scared. And it's still risk and like it may look big and fancy or maybe you don't see it until we're on the other side of it. But I don't know. I guess I just want to take a moment to kind of peel the curtains back in to say like but make no mistake. We were both terrified.

You know, we were. In fact, I even told I was telling someone back in like February, I was like, I feel like Abraham right now because I feel like the best is yet to come. And yet there is clear evidence that it is falling off a cliff. So I don't think I've told you the full story. And this goes back to how you and I both connected around like once you like when someone hears something once, that's the person that gets the best of you. Because after that you're like, don't have the patience to explain it again. And I'm like, I'm glad this whole time I've been like, I'll tell you this someday, so why not live on the podcast? Dozens of other people here. Okay. So last August, you know, we had to do like a fairly large layoff. It was just really, really challenging. And 2021 was just like, what is happening? 2020? We were like, we got through 2020 and it was amazing. And then it was like, Oh my God, this is not working. You know, artisans are having to lay off people. It was it was a very, very challenging time, really, where I just went into a huge place of discouragement, disappointment, grief, and really dealing with grief healthily for the first time in my life, like actually naming it. And right before we were going to actually have to, to have this conversation around layoffs at Jalia sent me a photo and the photo was extremely significant because it was just six years ago where I had been maybe actually was it was in 2017. I had gone to be with Jalia in Uganda and we she was showing me her farm for the first time, which is extremely significant because when I met her she was homeless and didn't have a computer or a bank account. And now she has this farm, that Noonday Collection orders have been able to enable her to do so that she can grow vegetables and fruit to supply to her whole entire community. So she's walking me around this farm showing me like we were eating passionfruit and avocados and sugar cane, and she was like, We're going to plant an avocado tree together and we are going to take the seed and we're going to remember this moment. And so she had this whole avocado seed prepared, had already been sprouted. We've got the hose, we're put, we're like digging in. And I'm thinking it is a significant moment in time, but I'm not actually thinking that that seed is going to grow into a tree because I grew up in an urban environment where I really I truly did not believe that seeds grew. And the things I thought of, like all of our food comes from a lab. It's an urban legend, right? So we plant this seed together. And, you know, I even wrote about it, my book, it was like the final chapter. And I'm like, so we planted a seed. So the day before, we were making this devastating announcement and conversation, and I'm thinking, Oh, great, everything was just false. You know, I said that we were building this beautiful thing and it's actually dying or whatever. And she goes, Jessica, look at our avocado tree. And she sends me a photo and it is a huge tree producing beautiful avocados. And so that came to me at just a moment where I thought, okay, I'm still going to believe. So fast forward to January and this gets a little spiritual. And sometimes my podcast listeners are like, Where are you taking me, Jess? So sometimes I share my faith. Sometimes I doubt this is one of those situations where I do. So I'm, I'm getting prayer from a couple that I've never met in my life at my church. And it was again, it was like January things there's nothing's changed, right? It's like so this is.

This is Jan 2022.

Thank you. Yeah. So just a handful of months ago and I'm like okay, I've got this at this point, I've got the photo of the tree, the avocado tree on my iPhone. I'm like going to believe that, yes. That someday we're going to produce fruit and things are still not good. And so I asked this young couple from my church, I actually they're Indian and my Indian friends know how to pray like nobody's business. So I was doing so bad, I was like, I'm going to get them to pray for me. So they're praying for me and just said a lot of beautiful and affirming things. And then the woman just said, I just want you to know the fruit's coming. Noonday is like a tree.

Wow.

And right now it's been sparse and you haven't seen any fruit. I want you to know the fruit is coming. And I pulled at my iPhone. And was like. What? Are you serious? Hmm. And it kept being abysmal. But I. But that moment was like this. I'm going to believe that the best is yet to come. And I bought a journal that said the best is yet to come. I went to Amani Collective, which has this cute little, like, embroidered thing that's like the best is yet to come. And I hung it up in my bathroom and I had no idea it was you. I think it was you. Just the fruit like we are now. We're growing this tree. And I say that, you know, we're shade builders. We're getting to build a tree together. And I even remember actually in March, this is before we even spoke, I was in California, in the wine country, and there were a lot of orchards and such. And someone was explaining how the same apple tree can grow to different kinds of apples. And I think that's even what gave me this vision of like, what if we're meant to like merge with other companies? And it's like, it's this one tree, but there's like you can pull a Gala off apple off the same tree. You can pull a...I don't know any other apple trees, honey crisp. Okay honey crisp and gala can grow from the same tree and then. And it was you. And so that that's a story I wanted to share the full story.

Thank you so much for sharing that. And it's even so. I mean, that's kind of like hashtag the best is yet to come. I feel like I didn't know that was your thing. And that's the language that I've been using. Which is just so, so sweet to see those ways in which our paths were probably in that very cosmic woo hoo way like passing and crossing one another. And you just, you just never know, right? You never know. And I think that one of the interesting things about our story, Jess, that probably for an outsider, is like I mean, I don't think because we both believe very deeply in community and in collaboration over competition, I don't think either of us would have been like, Noonday is a competitor, Sseko is a competitor, use that language. But just purely, purely, purely from like a business standpoint, we were absolutely competitors, right? Similar product categories, similar models like we were the two biggest fair trade fashion social selling companies. So just from a pure, pure on paper, very much so like we were one another's biggest competitors. And I think it's like a very good reminder of just like you. I mean, honestly, not to make it too trite or like, but you just never know, right? Like treat every person in your life. What if we walked around treating every person in our life going like, well, what if that's a future business partner or bestie? Totally that I don't know yet. You know, and just like and just with a sense of care and I mean, I know I shared this moment with you on the only with our internal community that I don't even know when this was, but just like several years ago. So I have a, I have a rule on social media. I call it my three strikes rule that if I follow somebody on social media and I have a quote unquote negative feeling, so whatever it makes me feel bad, it makes me feel ashamed, it makes me feel not enough. I feel jealous. I feel afraid. Whatever it is, I just pay attention to those emotions. And I the first time I'm like okay, maybe that was just like a random thing. If that happens the second time, I'm like, Okay, take note. And if it happens a third time, I give myself a choice and I say, You either for whatever reason, this person isn't serving you. And I, you know, I like to tell people that it's just like you get to be in control, like you are the boss of your inputs. You are there are some relationships that you can't escape from, you know, when you're just you were sharing about your seven year old who is triggering you. Okay. Well, those are kind of situations where you just got to lean in and figure that out. But like someone you follow on social media like, can we all just say you're in control of that little chat and people use your mute button. And so for me, I give myself two choices. I'm like, either unfollow and I unfollow willy nilly all the time. I'm just like, Boop, unfollow. Don't feel bad about it. This isn't serving me for whatever reason. I'm very, very free with curating my input because I'm I am the boss of my brain and of cultivating like a strong, creative, open mind. And if something's not serving me, unfollow. But my other choice is if I don't want to unfollow that I commit to praying for that person and ask God to bless them to, you know, like that I could learn from them, whatever it is, whatever that kind of like unique situation is. And so I'm like, unfollow, unfollow, unfollow. And then I came across an account. It's been too long. I can't remember the why or what, but I just remember being like, Nope, not going to unfollow. What you are going to do is you're going to pray. And here is a woman in the world who is running fast and who is running hard and like her values and her mission. And what she is building is literally building the world that you want to live in. We're not going to unfollow. We are going to commit. And I can't remember for how long it was. I mean, it definitely wasn't like the last four years. I wish I could say that. But there was a season where it was like every time I came across your name on social media or elsewhere, it became almost like muscle memory to just be like, oh, my gosh, God, will you bless Jessica? Will you make everything that she touches turn into gold? Will you make this mission and this vision flourish>? Will you create jobs? Will you create impact? Will you give them favor and. You were my biggest competitor. You know, like that was it's a weird thing. But also and I think it would have been a beautiful thing regardless of how the story ended up. But for me, it becomes extra special to go, Oh, my gosh, all that time you had in your wildest dreams, you didn't realize that this community that you had been holding up and praying for and, you know, wanting and wishing the best for would actually many, many, many years later become your family and your community and your business partner. And just to like those are the kind of like I have goose bumps right now.

Me too.

This like cosmic way in which we are like we belong to each other.

You think that takes intention? I mean, I've had you on my podcast before. That was super intentional. I literally hosted a competitor on my podcast, you know, and that was intentional because it was like you were here for the Fair Trade Federation. I mean, that's what's amazing. I mean, y'all in the world of retail, no one shares each other's sources with each other. Everything is top secret, everything is very veiled. I mean, that's why we are where we are today. People are like, what? I want to know where my clothes are made. I want to know where my jewelry comes from. And I was like, you know what? In the spirit of Fair Trade Partnership. I am going to host a competitor on my show, you know?

Yep, yep, yep. And those are the things where it's just like, I think it's easy to show up. And on day one, it's, you know, like, I don't know, everybody has like a coffee mug or like a t shirt, like, you know, choose collaboration over competition. But actually, when it comes down to it, those aren't you don't just like wake up and be like, I'm going to do this. Like, this is a million choices. It's a million, a million tiny choices of how you're going to show up in the world. Are you going to operate out of a belief of scarcity, which I will just say upfront in a lot of different ways I can tend to operate. My natural inclination can be one of fear and scarcity. And it has taken a lot of work in in a lot of areas of my life to show up and to say, I don't believe that's the truth. I'm going to live out of a story of abundance and choose collaboration and choose generosity and choose honesty and choose transparency with the belief that there is enough. To your point, we don't just wake up and go like, Oh, huge, here's a huge opportunity on the horizon. All of a sudden I'm going to believe in community over competition. It's actually like, Oh no, I made 10,000 and you made 10,000 tiny decisions. Again, not even just in the context of our businesses, but like just the muscles that we're building for how we show up in the world so that when those opportunities present themselves, it's like, Oh, you've been in the gym. It's like that muscle is that muscle has been built. And that's not to say there's a lot of work ahead of us. I know there is like I know that there will be challenging moments and things that trigger one another. And all of these things like we're entering into a new season of unknown. And I'm pretty clear eyed about knowing that there are challenges ahead, but also going like, Oh, but we've been building this muscle for so many years and now we get to benefit from the fruit of that.

It's posturing ourselves towards possibility and just being aware of that scarcity. Okay, everyone's listening now and they're like, Whoa, I want to be a part of this. Like, if you're just like okay, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. Like, I want to learn what a life, what it means to have a posture of possibility. I want to know what it means to be a part of a community that's being led by people, by women that are saying, I just laughed at myself when women, women and all my podcast listeners are very super used to the way that I say women. And so, Liz, why do people need to join this right now and how can they do that?

Oh, my gosh. Well, there's a couple of reasons that you need to join us. First, I'm going to speak to the you in the equation, not you, Jess, you, our listeners of like. Well, what's in it for you? I will say one, what we're talking about right now, this sense of community and I know that you've heard the same thing thousands of times that I've heard that that what we have created collectively together in our communities is a place of connection, of inspiration, of possibility, of collaboration, of deep friendship, of adventure, of purpose and meaning and impact. It's just a table. It is a big, beautiful table where we're saying like, hey, if you care about creating dignified opportunities for our brothers and sisters across the globe, and if you care and you believe that every girl should have the opportunity to learn and to lead regardless of where she was born, what she looks like, the family that she was born into, the culture, what it says about her and her worth and her possibility. If you believe that every girl has should have the opportunity to learn and to lead. Come sit at the table with us. If you are in a place where you are excited about the possibility of some flexible income and what flexible means, by the way, is not that you're not going to have to work because work is work and you will never hear Jess or I be like no, just sign up and you're going to become a millionaire in your sleep. Hard pass. No, you're going to have to work. But you work on your own time, to your own schedule, in a way that absolutely can fit with the rhythms and the seasons of your life and make a really meaningful difference in your family's financial life and existence, depending on how much of a priority you want to make it. There is a seat at the table for you if you love fashion and you're like, Listen, I go buy all the things handbags, jewelry, clothes, sign me up. But like, Mama's got a budget. This is an incredible opportunity to build a full, sustainable wardrobe and lifestyle at a serious discount. Join us. And then there's the meta picture, right? It is always been important to create dignified, fair wage jobs. It has always been important to create opportunity for female scholars. But specifically, over the last 24 months, in the context of covid over a hundred million people, we have made a lot of progress actually in the last decade, and then a lot of that progress got wiped out over the last two years. 100 million people have been pushed back into extreme poverty. So folks who had worked their way out are back in it. There are 30 million girls who stopped going to school during the pandemic and don't have a line of sight for getting back in the classroom. And so on a meta level, from a mission and vision, an impact standpoint, there has literally never been a more important time to engage and to make a difference. And I know and this is a phrase you use a lot, Jess, of this idea of like compassion fatigue, of just like it's been a brutal few years and it's we can't care about everything in the world, and that's okay. I don't think we were meant to carry the world's burdens, but let's not become just numb to the heartache of the world. And if for you, those two things dignified, fair wage jobs and girls going to school, if that makes your heart beat a little bit faster, if that makes you go like, yes, that is the world that I want to live in, but I feel totally overwhelmed. I don't know how to start. The problem seems so big. I want to tell you that literally I feel confident in saying this brand promise. Jess, you can stop me if you disagree. We have made it the absolute most fun to do heavy, big, important work. More fun than anybody else in the entire world. But like, if you want to make a social justice impact, but you want to have a ball and you want to travel the world and you want to earn money and you want to look great and style and meet amazing friends. Come on. Like, where else are you doing work that is that important. That is also freaking fun.

Right? So fine. I mean, we're talking it's. We are. We're having a blast, honestly. It's just incredible. And we want you. We want you and Liz. And I've talked a lot about fear today. And, you know, all we want to say is go scared and then pluck up.

Okay. We were joking about wanting to do a live podcast. And we're like what we call it. And then we're like, let's call it plucking scared. Like he's scared because they're off.

We are all plucking scared. But we all know that on the other side of our fear is our greatest impact. It's where our greatest relationships wait for us. It's where our greatest purpose is waiting for us. And that's what listeners are getting to live into. And we're not some, you know, special snowflake people. We really are just women who decided, you know what, I'm scared, but I know that that I meant to use my life to create opportunity for other people. And these other people are now our family and they're all over the world. I mean, we have people in now 13 different countries. We're traveling to Peru, to Ecuador, to Guatemala next year alone. And if you join right now, the earning starts now to get to go on those trips. I know. Liz and I are going to be going to some of those places next year. And so you'll get to come with us. It's just it's just a good time to go ahead and say yes. And I remember when the very first people that said, hey, why don't you start selling these artisan made products out of your home? My friends that were living in Uganda, they said, I think you could create a marketplace for these people. And I laughed at them and I said, My plate is so full. I have so much going on. I've got two kids about it, another one on the way via adoption. I already have another business that I run. And what can I say? Courage cornered me. We got into a financial bind and I needed a way to have some additional income and so this is the opportunity that I took and says sometimes saying yes. Even in the middle of those chaotic, fearful, tired, fatigued places is that's actually the moment when you get to lift up and say, I'm going to stop just binging on Netflix, I'm going to quit just pouring the bottle of wine every single night like this is such a good way to do something towards your future self, like the future self that you really want to be. And what's crazy about it is that right now it's a dollar. It's literally a dollar. If you're listening to this podcast in August you can start your own business through Noonday collection for $1. And we did that to show that we are one, now that we are one. And we wanted to just really create that excitement that this this, this is only going to happen once. A merger with Sseko Designs and Noonday collection is only going to happen once. And that is what we've done. And we want you to be a part of it. So join us. You can go to NoondayCollection.com. If you know of an ambassador in your community, you can reach out to her. She would love to talk with you, but you can just go to Noonday and click on Join and we will walk with you right through it. I also tell people they can always DM me at Jessica Honegger on Instagram and on that note. Liz, Liz. Now, now that she has all of these partners, I told her that she has to start creating more content on Instagram because she is one of the smartest writers that I know so go follow Liz.

And Jess taught me how to use Instagram over the weekend. I was like, Wait insights. How do you see your insights on Instagram? I've never thought to look at that before, right? So you know what? We each have our strengths that we are bringing to the table, and that includes you. We're building a really, really big, beautiful table. And so whatever your gecko's telling you, I'm not enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not stylish enough, I don't have enough friends, I'm not outgoing enough, blah, blah, blah, blah. I promise you, this is my personal guarantee that if you can take your rightful seat at our table and join our community, that there's a spot for you and that we need you. We need you exactly how you are, whether you're like, I've got 30 minutes a week to give or Hey, I. I want to make this a full time thing. Whether you feel like you've got experience or this feels super foreign to you. And I will say, Jess, I'm not sure how it is in the Noonday community, but I know in the Saco community about 80% of folks who joined had no experience, were like, I'm not stylish, I've never sold anything in my life. Business oriented like this is truly I think y'all there is a seat at the table for you. Okay. I'm an executive at a company that sells statement earrings and I didn't have my ears pierced until about three weeks ago. It's never too late. You are enough. We need your light, your unique energy, your gifts, your skills, your joys, your sorrows, all of it. We're here for it, and we can't wait to meet you.

Well, thank you, Liz. This is really fun.

We should do this more. Let's do it. Okay. Come up with them.

Well, you know, we went out. We already have decided we want to be QVC hosts.

Yeah, and talk show hosts.

And talk show hosts. So we podcasts. Who knows? Who knows what's in our future?

This was very fun. It was fun to be kind of a little bit on. I feel like this is a fun merger because usually, I mean, we both are on shows a lot as the guests and then we both host our own shows where you're very much so the interviewer this is like kind of twisty wisty and somewhere in between.

Who's talking to who?

Right here, I don't know, kept me on my toes. Super fun. Well, thanks everybody, for tuning in. And who knows, maybe there'll be more in the future, but until then, stay plucky. What do you say at the end of your podcast? Do you have a sign off?

Until then let's take each other by the hand and keep going. Scared? All right. Well, I would love for you specifically to share this episode. As Liz said, we are doing something important. We're doing something that not many people do. I think especially women coming together to build a table together is unique. And you're invited. You're invited. And so would you share this episode? You can share it by screenshotting it, putting it on Instagram, you could just text a link to a friend and say, this is really encouraging just to hear about two women and their stories of how they came together. We would love for you to do that. You also can review and rate the podcast. Just head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave a review. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to be back better than ever in September. So stay tuned. But in the meantime, share this episode. And until next time, I'll take you by the hand and we'll keep going scared.