Summertime Mini-Series Part 3: Enneagram and Work

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Growing Scared podcast. This is your host, Jessica Honegger, founder of the World Changing Brand Noonday Collection. Join me here every week for conversations that encourage you to live a life of purpose by leaving comforts and going scared. I have loved this series. I love being reflective during the summer. I love taking books on vacation and finally diving in to the books that stack up on my shelf all year round. And this series we are talking with nine people, all representing nine different types of the Enneagram. And this week we are talking about the Enneagram and work. How do we see it show up similarly or differently in the workplace, and how has it guided us as leaders? Each person on the show today is a leader in their own right. Our one is Shruthi Parker, who's a lifestyle blogger and storyteller behind the Honest Truth. Our number two is a famous Enneagram speaker and coach Suzanne Stabile. And our number three is Jen Hatmaker, author, speaker and blogger. Number four is my neighbor and friend Scott Erickson, who is known for his insta account @scottthepainter. Professional homemaker and founder of thenester.com, is Myquillyn Smith representing the Fives. And my newest friend Ashton Brye, is our voice of the loyal Sixes and also the magic behind the Instagram art of Ashton creates on Instagram and Etsy. I'm your number seven and coming in hot is Sam Collier representing our number eight. He's a speaker and author and lead pastor. And last but not least is our nine diversity expert, unity champion and founder of Be the Bridge, Tasha Morrison. We all have such a really good conversation about how understanding the Enneagram and understanding ourselves has helped us in our own work. Talking about work. Each of us leads in our industries. It's kind of why we're on this podcast, because somehow I knew of you from some sort of public space and we are all each different Enneagram numbers in a place of leadership in a place of influence. And I'm just so curious how our number influences our leadership. So, Sam, I would love to hear what's been the biggest internal hurdle that you've had to come over in order to flourish as a leader.

Wow. Well, one, I want to say, this is been an honor to be a part of. And I know most of you, some of you have just met, but I'm fans of all of you that I have known before. And I'm going to stalk all the rest of you after this and get to know. But great to meet everybody and such an honor to be a part of this new challenge. The seven and eight combination can be a deadly combination. Leading the team. It's probably one of the most confusing combinations, even for eight, seven wings, because we don't know what's going on and just to give a little bit and Suzanne know, like, she's nodding because she knows probably she knew before I knew I should have called her before I went into the lead pastor role. But, just to give you a little bit of it, and I'm holding my hair because I'm just like, so many situations. The seven wing, if it's strong, is everybody's best friend. Quickly. So I don't know what this other personality test is called, but the woo factor, my woo, is like through the roof, which is leaning on the seven sides. So I don't need a stranger. It's like we can go from 0 to 60 in 5 minutes. I'm like, I love you. I love your family. I love who you are. God has a plan, and we're gonna change the world together. Oh, my gosh. Let's be together forever. And everybody like, they get in, so we're best friends. But then when I have to switch into the leadership mode , my full on eight comes out and it starts to threaten what I built on the seven side. So now I'm having to correct, reorient, restructure, and redirect my best friend who just became my best friend. And I don't really know you because we just met and you're on staff and you're trying to figure out how to switch hats on me. And so I'm having to navigate and we said this earlier, one of my greatest tensions as an eight and I would probably say this is most eight's tension cause I have a lot of eight friends. It's no surprise that we have a lot of eights on our staff. At least now we do. It's learning what I've said in a certain way, but did it land harder than I thought it landed. And now I'm having to console my best friend who's really not my best friend. But we just met because my seven convinced you and me that we were best friends. And now I'm having to correct that while trying to maintain the friendship and lead you at the same time. So for me, don't really make it really simple. For me, it's been a challenge to go, "how do I turn some of my seven down?" in the beginning. And how do I turn a little bit of my eight down as well? So it's a in order to love people well, especially in difficult moments. And so, I haven't mastered it. But I will say I just hired a culture coach who used to work with kind of the John Maxwell Company. And she is actively helping me craft and language and craft sentences in a way that communicates my heart especially. And it's always it's a delicate dance, though, Jess. It is a delicate dance and it is something that I want to get right and that we're getting right. One of the things that she said on the front end is she said, you know, Sam, staffing is going to be your greatest thing. It's going to be a great if you can just get the staffing right from the beginning, she said, because there's going to be a lot that you're not going to be able to change. God made you the way he made you, and when you're establishing your leadership table, you have to get people around the leadership table that are naturally wired to run with you because if not, you that's just going to keep stepping on heads and hands and all things. While you also learn how to lead others that are not exactly wired in the best way to fit your specific personality. So, I'm learning and growing and trying to get it right.

You're choosing the growth, though, which to me the most unhealthy eights are the ones that just don't choose to grow.

Amen.

Got to got to get vulnerable. Suzanne,

I just wanted to say that, you know, eights are feeling repressed and sevens are feeling repressed. So, you have you can do better if you will say to yourself before you open your mouth, "what am I feeling and what are the people around me apparently feeling?" And the other thing is you got to hire people on your staff who are feeling dominant because you in your wing are feeling repressed. So nobody knows who's having trouble at home. Nobody knows who's hurting, nobody knows who's getting a divorce. Nobody knows any of that in your world. And somebody needs to if you're going to work with other people.

That's good. That's so good.

Jen was going to say something. I did want to hear that.

Oh, Jen.

I don't want to tell you something, Sam. I really appreciate the eights in my life. I feel like maybe more than any other number, the eights to my life have challenged me and stretched me toward, like, the greatest expansion. And I love the way that you show up in the world. Like as a three, I struggle with what I perceive to be conflict, which is really just tension or just a conversation. I assign that conflict label and I struggle with vulnerability. Both of those are hard for me. And when you're having a conversation that's got tension baked into it, that requires a vulnerability to move through it in a healthy way. And so, the eights in my life have really taught me, like just because we're having this hard conversation does not mean what I think, which is we're disconnecting. What's happening right now is you and I are disconnecting the eights are like, no, we're not. We're engaged. Like we're in this. We're locked in here in a good way. And let's just keep going through it and we'll get to the other side. And so, just I appreciate hearing you talk about some of the like how it feels to be on the other side of an eight. But I want you to know if somebody who is often it's good for me, it's good for me to be in relationship with an eight. It teaches me about conflict resolution and my preference is to put something in a drawer and shut it. So anyway, good on you.

Good on you.

Eights help me find my voice to because.

Yeah I love eights.

I have to use my voice to have their respect and so it brings out a confidence in me and also eights just bring security to everyone. It's like, oh, it's going to be okay because you're here, you know, because you're here, it's all going to be okay. And that is your superpower. Sam.

Yeah, totally. I've learned so much about justice work from the eights in my life. They've really instructed me well.

Thank you, Jen. Why don't you go and share with us leadership flourishing internal hurdles.

Yeah. So I'm a three and I'm kind of the threes tend to be considered like natural born leaders that's part of our genre and I, I love most of my three energy. I love it in my space and it has served me mostly well. But where I struggle is it tends to be largely internal. Even though I'm sort of high achieving, I'm very supportive and like absolutely the biggest fan and cheerleader of the people on my team and staff. I'm all, go, go, go. You're the best. You're the best. This is the best. You guys are so valuable always. I mean, that is my gear almost all at all time. I'm a cheerleader and a fan for the people who work for me and with me. I cannot access that generosity toward myself. I cannot. And so.

Not yet.

I know enough I know enough to know I'm 47. I'm self-aware, right? I'm self-actualized. And I hear the voice in my head just being like, could have done more. Could have done better. Perfect example. My last book came out and it was the third book in a row. When your book comes out and there's something important that happens with it sort of in the charts, your entire publishing team calls you, your editor, the lead publisher, your agents. Everybody calls you to get you on the phone. And they're like, Hey, we're on speaker. We have something to talk about. So on my last book, I get this call. It's a weekend of book release. Everyone that has worked on the book is on a call and they're like, They tell me that this is the third book in a row that debuted its first week out as number two on the New York Times list, which is huge. That is an incredible, incredible feat. They're all thrilled and right out of my mouth. And I meant this as sincerely as I the first thought in my head. And then what came out of my mouth was, you guys, I am so sorry. I cannot get us to number one. I just can't do it like three in a row. At number two, I just cannot get us there. And they're like, You're an insane person. And I meant it, that's all I could see was that everybody worked so hard. Everybody did all they could do. They like put all their chips in on this. And I just I just didn't do something well enough to get there. So that is really a hard way to live. It's very mean inside my brain. And I would love to continue to grow in this way to do better. I learn a lot about celebration from Sarah Bessey. Sarah's one of my closest friends and she's a nine, and she is so good about noticing and celebrating. Every little thing. Every little thing is like, this was just wonderful and I'm just going to bask in it today and I'm like, You're going to bask? Can we? Like, can we bask? And so, that to me is the hardest thing about leadership. And it's if ever I want to throw in the towel, it's because I'm tired of feeling crappy. I'm tired of feeling like I'm not doing a good job and that I wish I was doing better. I don't apply this to anybody around me. I do not. And I just don't know why I can't seem to like locate that inner sense of generosity, but that is really, really hard for me. And so, I think that's the thing that I would just I hope I'm not still saying this ten years from now.

You won't be.

Yeah.

You're on a journey. I do think that is a struggle with three wing twos is, there is this conflict because I find that three with strong two wings they just want other people to win so badly.

So bad, I want the feather in everyone's cap. I want them to like feel so excited and proud of what they've accomplished.

It's your superpower, though, and you're the healthiest three I know. So certainly and I've told you that numerous times. So, we're going to continue to get you on that path. Suzanne, I don't know if you have anything to say in reflection to that.

Well, the most important thing I would say and it's real important so look in these eyes of mine. You are both feeling dominant and feeling repressed. And that means that you take in information with feelings, but you don't use feelings to process the information that you've taken in. And so you're growing edge is and I've observed you do this is that you take in the feelings of everybody around you and then you do the work and use feelings to make sense of what's happening around you. But then when it's to your part, you're tired and it's just easier to fall back into taking in with feelings and not using feelings to make sense of it. And so what you got to do is practice feeling for you. I feel this way about me right now, but you have to connect it to what thinking would tell you, not just what you feel. There's no reason for you not to feel like that you are a phenomenally successful human being every day. And I don't know all of your history, but with some of your book release, there has also been personal challenge. And that has to show up somewhere. And if you're going to have that be part of your failure, which you publicly and privately seem to do, then I think you hang your hat on. You're carrying it and you don't quite know where to put it because you know it's not all about you. So you put it on. It's number two instead of number one. So you're doing a lot of really good work. You should be very pleased with your vulnerability in the world and with the value that you're offering to other aggressive numbers, like sevens and eights.

Thank you, Suzanne.

Thank you.

Now you have to hold and feel that, Jen. let's don't get real dismissive. Give her 30 seconds. Give hold on that. Hold it. Hold it.

All right. Hold it.

Scott. I'm super curious. As a four. Yeah I know that this is a conflict with you. You know, as any artist who you're an artist, but you're also a content creator churning out content for people. How is that showing up for you?

I think I got to say, I got a little triggered on that last one. So I'm just I almost just was going to leave the conversation and move on.

Well, tell us about that. Tell us about that.

Well, as in my four-ness right now, like, I'm in a tidal wave of so many things. So I'm trying to like, you know, what's worth front facing. I don't know. Well, specifically as an author, like, I mean, for somebody say I only made number two and that's not good enough, I'd be like, Well, sorry. Like, I just was like, great. I mean, that would maybe I almost threw up over here. So I like I mean, I get it. I'm not I'm not saying like what you said either. And I'm like, wow, that's a totally different experience than I have. I'm more along the line of like, how do you even keep going with stuff when, you know, putting things into the world just feels like a drop in the ocean. So, so much of my like, I have some real strong practices of gratitude to kind of curve that just like desire to just go, it doesn't matter at all. So I, I mean, I'm sorry. I like I'm not in like a good spot to speak on all of that. I think, you know, as a, as an artist like. And I don't know where the four or just my work is. I really just feel like a lot of my work is really listening and paying attention. And that is different throughout. There was a time in my life where I had to take every gig that came my way. And then I've built a career to a spot where I think the best thing I can do is pay attention to what can I uniquely bring into the world, and then pay attention to that and try to do that. And so but there is this. Like, when I think about to talk about like authenticity or emotion, when I'm thinking about something, you know, a vocab word that I have is just like, what is the emotional anchor like? Because I think I can get into the concept, but then I'm like, Well, how does this feel? What is the feeling associated with that? Because I think that's going to stand. So I guess that as a person who's working, and I'm you know, one of the things that's hard for me at least about being an artist, I guess it's good and it's hard. It's very solitary. So, there's a lot of like working. If I don't feel in the mood I have to work on, like how well how do I get to the mood or a state, you know, what are the ways I can do it sometimes? Like I'm in a writing project right now, so I'm just like, Oh, I'm going to read something that's really inspiring to me and be like, Yeah, words and stories can do something. And then it helps me get there and then or look at something that like image wise to find that spark of curiosity, that wonder and go, you can participate in that. And so it really is like for me there's this like jumpstarting to get to that place where I go. This is what excited me about the work in the first place and then I want to get to that stuff. So and I hope if that's helpful, like about like work, it's really about kind of like what is the touch point? Because I think like vulnerability for me is, is less about your weaknesses and limitations. It's more about your relationship to your weaknesses and limitations. How do you feel about having them? Do you feel like it's going to be something that if you let people see it, they'll dismiss you? Or I actually think the spiritual journey is realizing that it is the way in which you connect with other people. Not that people won't take advantage of that. And I that does happen, but that's the kind of thread that I see trying to get through.

So, Suzanne, I would love for you to respond to Scott.

Scott. I wish I was at your house, actually, but I'm here, so hear this. The real truth is that we all. We all want to be successful. You wouldn't trust being number two on The New York Times best seller list. You would believe that you had sold out somewhere along the way on what you know to be authentic in the way you see. And while we all want success, fours measure success completely differently than the rest of the world. The whole rest of the world. You're the most complex number on the Enneagram. Most people don't understand you at all. And that complexity is what makes you a good artist. And it's what makes life really challenging for you. And so I just want to affirm at the end and then, you know, call me, most people don't get you and most people are never going to get you, but they get your work. And the people who get your work are looking for something different than what the average person is looking for because of the complexity of how you see. So I hope that being a four will continue to give you as much joy as it gives you pain so that you can continue to create from a place of authenticity that, you know, some people aren't just aren't going to recognize and that you can be really good with that.

Thanks, Scott.

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Tasha. I'm so curious, as a nine leading a justice organization, I just can't imagine the number of internal hurdles that you have had to overcome in order to flourish as a leader.

Yeah, I think what I think part of being a nine is the strength in this. And, you know, because nines are, we're naturally a bridge builder. And so, you know. Without any of this, the things that I know that I am as a leader, change agent, and bridge builder. So, so be because of that. You know, I think I'm effective in the work that I do, especially, you know, I think there's the work that. I do out in public as far as like talking. I think that's also shows up different. Like if I'm doing a training because in a training I have more space to explain, you know, and so and then as, as I develop a relationship, I get closer to people. I have no problem, especially if I feel like what I'm going to tell you is going to benefit you or reduce embarrassment for you, then I have no problem with sharing that with someone and being upfront and straightforward with them. And I think that's because I want to see you at your best. And I think that's the grace part. I think when it comes to leading my team, you know, I have to make sure that I have to lean into my eight a little bit more because I can tend to give, you know, a lot of grace, kind of like in my teaching and my talking. And, you know, and I've had some conversations with you where it's like, wait a minute now. And it's that moment, I think, whereas I feel like I've been taken advantage up or the grace has been abused. Where I can flip on you, you know, and where it's like you know, I'm done at that point. And so I, I'm learning that balance and also even working with the coach.

You know.

How to say things went to say things and then because we're a new organization, you have that journey of all of those things that come with that. But I think I think my nine is my best asset. In this work, actually, you know, and I didn't realize that at first you know, because it's kind of like because I can be definitely just as an obsessive someone if I feel like someone is being misunderstood or if there's a discrepancy or in in equity or anything. Like that, that can really get my blood. That helps me with the action part, you know, to do something to, to come up with the idea or whatever.

Like some of the stuff that's happening in our news now is driving me crazy because it's like, I want more action, you know? But then my nine helps taper that into more wisdom, more strategy, more thoughtfulness. And so but it keeps me moving, you know, until I have to deal with some of the procrastination in my writing.

Which we're. Currently doing. Currently helping you procrastinate your writing.

Yeah. Yeah. Procrastinating in my writing. But, but yeah, but that's, you know, so I didn't see that as a benefit. But I think that is what makes me who I am, you know, a part of that. And then I think that is what that combination has made. What I do to be the bridge helps at work that.

Yeah.

You know.

It's so unique you are so unique in the world.

And.

The world is better because of you and especially white people are better because of you know? You just tell us.

But it's that thing where people say, you know, just what people say is like, you're punching me in my face, but you're also rubbing me on my back. I've had so many people say that to me where it's like I should be mad at her, but she's smiling, I can't be mad you know? And I hear that all the time. And that's not something that is the essence of who I am. It's not I'm not trying to do that or be that or it's like a skill set or strategy. That's how I'm uniquely wired. And so therefore.

I feel like that has uniquely wired me to do this. Where it doesn't mean that I don't get angry or upset or frustrated or want to throw in the towel. All those things happen. But, you know, it's just how I handle it.

So I love how you describe that punch in the face while patting on the back, because that is how I can experiencing it when you are punching me in the face. So I. Appreciate that. Okay, Ashton, what about you? Tell us about your journey, because it's recent. It's just the last couple of years and it grew and wow. Probably a lot of anxiety going on behind the scenes.

Yeah, I mean, for those who don't know kind of my background, I started an Instagram account in 2019. In August. By December, I had about 20,000 followers, and by the following March I had over 100,000. So I didn't have a chance to really catch my breath. It evolved into a business overnight. Essentially, it went from me just making art as a way to have somewhere to post it without it being on my main feed to being a full time job, which is amazing. But just a little, a little bit of a jarring experience, I guess. And with that came having to hire an assistant and get people to help me with the production and management and shipping and all of the little things that go into a business. And so I had to go from just kind of being responsible for myself to being responsible for a team of people who are the reason that like I can function every day, like they, they make my life a lot easier. But as part of my six, I struggle with I'm incredibly loyal, I'm loyal to my people to a fault. But also, if I feel like that loyalty has been betrayed in any way, I am immediately shutting that off. And so, like in business, if I feel like my loyalty has been betrayed in any way, I'm just going to cut the ties completely. Like there's which is not healthy, but I would rather just completely cut that cord than have to deal with the lack of loyalty or feeling like I was betrayed on some point and having to confront that in the same way. Like, I don't I don't want to have to necessarily go up and be like, Oh, you did this and this, like, felt like it was being and loyal to me and I didn't like it. I would rather just do like, okay, we're done. Thank you so much. But then I also struggle with it on the other side of betraying like some of my like assistants and stuff. If they do something that I don't necessarily love, like I don't want to push that too far and kind of affect my security that I have built with this team. But his security is such a huge thing to me and I think a six in general. Like we thrive on that security of our community. And part of my community is my like team that I work with. And so I don't want to necessarily stir the pot in any way that could affect that loyalty that I feel like I have on my team, even when that might be necessary. So if they do something that I don't love, I am scared sometimes to go forward and be like, Hey, you can't do that because I don't want them to be like, okay, well, forget it. Like, I'm not going help you. And then I'm left scrambling like, oh no, I have like messed up my team or messed up the security that I built. And now I'm left kind of like scrambling to pull it all back together. So that has been my biggest struggle. And the way that I have tried to overcome that has just been facing it head on, having the conversation and making communication a huge part of what I do, and then kind of coming to terms with accepting that. Like just because I say like just because I think something might be harsh, that doesn't necessarily mean someone else is going to take it that way. And we can have those conversations and it doesn't necessarily mean everything's going to burn down. And it's not that I am afraid of confrontation because on one hand I really do like I will. If you're left in that fight or flight mode, I am going to fight, but I weigh my cost in the fight. So if I feel like it's too heavy of a cost, then I'm going to pull back where if I feel like I have nothing to lose, that I'm going to push it all the way. And so just finding a balance in that and realizing that some things are worth pushing the boundary on where other things that might be better to just pull back and kind of wait to see what happens or if it can be resolved in a more calm manner versus a like knockdown drag out. And it's not it doesn't happen often. Like I don't want it to come across that I'm always like freaking out with my team. It just is those certain situations I have found to be way more hectic and stressful for me than they necessarily had to be. And I end up dragging them on way longer than they have to because I am not wanting to interrupt my pattern of security and make it more stressful on myself. So I'll like, hold it in and I'll be like, okay, I'm just not going to say anything. And then it builds to the point where I have to say something and it just it goes into more than it necessarily has to. So that is what I'm working on right now.

But well, you're new, you're learning.

And yeah, it's only been a couple of years.

Extra grace for that.

Yeah. Leadership is a long road in the same direction, so I'm very impressed with your maturity in that, Suzanne. Your growth journey as a leader, as a two with the three wing or. Wait, I just said that. I don't even know if that's true.

I'm a two with both wings, which is kind of part of the Enneagram lineage that I come from that by the second half of life, we all have both wings adds a little balance. It's really quite helpful, I would suggest. So it's interesting to answer this question from my perspective because I always wanted to be a coach and I started coaching high school girls basketball and then I always want then from there I want to be a college coach. I did that right after Title nine, which was a long time ago. I taught theology, and I've started a social service agency. I've done a lot of things, so we don't have time for me to talk about my leadership gifts and failures in each of those experiences. But let me just say that I think as a leader, I'm collaborative, and I think that's because of my two. Everything for me is about relationships, everything. And so ultimately the way I know which wouldn't work for everybody, it works for me as a two. To hold relationships together from my position as a leader is to be in an appropriate relationship with all my people. But it's difficult for twos to have boundaries around the things that are ultimately my decision, the things that are our decision as a team. I want everybody to feel like they belong and like they're important. And at the end of the day, Joe and I started Life in the Trinity Ministries in 1985. And I, we are working very hard to not be founders who don't let go and who don't train younger people to take it and go with it from here. And it's hard and it's hard to do if you're collaborative. And I think it's impossible to do it successfully if you don't have some gifts for collaboration along the way. So I'm not sure that I'm contributing what you want me to because, you know, I'm 71 and it's y'all are all so young and I'm so excited about the way that all of you do life. And it's very different looking back than it is looking forward. So I think the biggest mistake that I've made as a leader is to not say no often enough and to say yes too many times.

Mm hmm.

If I had something that I would do. Differently. It would be different for each of the leadership roles that I've had, and I know that that takes too much time. So I would just say that the overall challenge for me in leadership is believing in myself. And in how I see. And being willing to risk what I think is really important because it often causes a disconnect with people that I care about.

Yeah.

And I prefer connecting over disconnecting.

I feel that. I feel that I'm a seven wing social seven wing six, so I can show up as a two. So I really relate to what you're saying.

Yeah. And so it's been quite a privilege for me to be part of this conversation because of where I find myself in life. And it's been an honor to listen to all of you teach from your number so that other people can understand what their options might be. And it was an astonishing conversation for me at the moments within it when it included cultural difference. And so I'm glad you put this together, and I'm glad you invited me to join you. I would just tip my hat and say everybody who you invited is very self-aware.

Hmm.

And maybe at the end of the day, that's the overall answer for all of us in terms of being good leaders.

So amen.

That's the first step. Yeah. So Ruthie and McQuillan, you guys want to share your journey?

Okay, well, I'm going to answer the question. What's been the biggest internal hurdle I've had to overcome in order to flourish in my work as a five? And for me, it's not being able to do everything myself, my work, and having to learn how to rely on other people. And part of that is just flat out pride. Like, I want to be in charge and control and do everything myself. Part of it is laziness. I know it will take longer to have to talk to someone else or teach them how to do it, or teach them how I want this or just have human conversations. I would rather just do it myself. Some of it is just distrust from past experiences or someone saying they'll do something and they don't follow through and it makes me crazy or someone just not doing what they told me they could do. And it ruins me for a long time. I can't do what I do without learning how to work well and play well with others. So it's been really good for me to have to be forced to find wonderful people and that's been almost healing for me. Now I feel like I have such amazing people in my life, and I'm really grateful to be put in a position where I rely on them. I can't do my business alone, and I think it's been really good for me, just as a human to have to learn how to work with other people and to see that most of time, almost all the time, there are a lot better at things than I am and I can learn from them and they follow through. And it's just about figuring out the right people in the right places. So I've been really grateful to learn from other people in my life, even though I still sometimes secretly wish I could do everything myself because then I wouldn't have to talk to people. I can go to closet and just finish my ding-a-ling work, but I ultimately am glad that it takes a village.

What do you think that has to do with it being an Enneagram five? I'm kind of surprised, I guess, to hear that this is your one thing.

It's just maybe a little bit of control. Having to have conversations, having to wait on people. I really value freedom. I don't want anyone to waste my time. I want I believe that I have researched the most and know the best way to do things and look for my own business. And I don't want someone who doesn't know what they're doing to wreck it all up. So yeah, there's a lot of weirdo things like that that kind of can fit right in.

Well, that's interesting because I think a lot of people can relate to not being able to delegate and hand things over. But your motivation is coming from this. It's because I've researched it the most.

Right. It's just because I think I know best or I don't trust someone or it will just be too much work. I'm fine once people, once I feel good about them, I have assistance. It's so great and love giving up work once I am there. It's just getting there.

It's getting there. We're all getting there. Shruthi, what about you?

I would say the biggest internal struggle I've had to overcome in order to flourish in my work has been redefining my definition of success. And so for myself, I used to think kind of more in a worldly perspective. Success equals numbers, equals followers. It equals all of those things. But what I have learned and what tends to help me enjoy my work is yes and my covering my financial bases, like my goals and my hitting my goals, but also besides, like that practical side of obviously running a business. I have no problem. I should have no problem stepping back whenever I want to. And if I can't, then that means I'm letting my work control me.

Mm hmm.

And I could not relate.

Who I am today. I couldn't relate to, like, the number two bestselling book and being frustrated about it. And I couldn't relate to so much of that because it makes me remember, like, my obsession with, like, worldly success. And I don't ever want to go back to that perspective. And I also find that I tend to curtail my voice and filter it if I do that. And so if I want to show up in my work as Shruthi Parker, then I'm going to show up as someone who isn't worried about how many comments something gets or saves or shares. Something I do might have 500 comments and something I do might have five. But both of those took the same amount of effort and heart for me. So I had to change my mindset to be like, you aren't going to judge the worth of my work. The worth of my work comes from my heart and what I believe is good work. But when I was on the other side of that and I really was so obsessive of why did this not do as well as this? And I was miserable. Miserable, and I wanted to quit so many times. But being in this sphere now, I've been like blogging since 2014, but for myself, since 2016, being in this sphere now, I've changed a lot because of that. Like, I will not let the world be my critic. I am already hard enough on myself.

Spoken from a true one. Spoken from a true one. What a growth edge for you and I. So many ones listening to this are going to grow and learn from your journey.

Well, we did it. Honestly, going into this, I was nervous. I was really nervous on how we were going to even just deal with not talking over each other. Also driving clarity for you as our listeners since you can't see who's talking. I really thought this conversation was extremely valuable and it just brought a new aspect to how I even think about the Enneagram. And of course, Suzanne Stabile, I mean, goodness gracious, she is so full of wisdom. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for being a Going Scared podcast listener. I love listening to podcasts during the summer. I fill my Spotify library app with so many podcasts and then I just binge away during the summer when the pace of life seems to slow just a little bit. I hope you have an awesome rest of your summer. Our music for today's show is by Ellie Holcomb. And I'm Jessica Honegger. Until next time, let's take each other by the hand and keep going scared.